Are dating apps making it harder for single parents to find love?

It's so easy to be jaded by the dating process. How do you stay hopeful? Lili and Scott dive into their app horror stories, their struggles with finding someone worth dating, and the one dating path that might actually work. Plus, Lili sends an unfortunate text and Scott is horrified by what people are saying about their exes.

Follow us on the socials!

Substack: https://hopeidontfkthisup.substack.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@HopeIDontFThisUp
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hope.i.dont.f.this.up/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61567727127125
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@hope.i.dont.f.this.up

Transcript

0:00

I asked my son what rizz was and he said, if you have to ask what it is, you don't have it. He's right. I'm low on rizz and I did this and doing this. I did this finger thing I know, and I realized how, like, free of rizz I am. It's okay. You're the homeschooler in the back of the car. Just sit next to a cool kid and maybe you'll transfer some cool to you. Oh, man. Well, today we want to talk about dating, especially as you get over a certain age, you can get real jaded. And by over an age, I mean like 20, but still like, it's like very easy to get dated with dating. It's very easy to get jaded with dating. Yes. It is very easy to get dating. Oh my God, is this the first sign or stroke? Dating. Dating with dating days? In all honesty, I think it does. I'm Lili, single mom to teen twins father. I'm recording in here, and I'm Scott, single dad to a pre-teen boy. Yeah, it's under the sink where two old friends trying to navigate single parenting and spending the whole time thinking, I hope I don't fuck this up. I meant to say, who's more jaded, you or me? Might be a hard, cool guy. All right. Oh, well. Pretty shit. It's both pretty jaded. And the horror stories I've heard and experienced, it's been very. It's been an interesting, interesting ride. But first, is there anything. Is there anything from this past week that you you want to bring up any parenting fails? Or. You know what successes we keep doing fails? Maybe there's a success we want to throw in there. I didn't have one angry text like, I know that I talk about my relationship to my ex as it's like really lovely all the time. And it's not. I'm still human. We are still human. I still get so pissed off. But it's. And he is not a financial. He's not financially attentive to anything. I was always the one in charge of everything. Always. And that's fine. I prefer being in control. If he was going to be a spaz. But he has a student loan that keeps coming out of what we call the shared account. Really? It's just my checking account because he doesn't put money for it, which is why it's night. But he usou and he has a card for it, which, you know, easiest for the kids, but his student loan keeps coming out of that. And he, like, every time I every like it was just like an automatic payment thing that was set up like ages ago when it was when really was our family account. And, he's canceled it with the student loan people and, like, you know, not they're not supposed to be taking it. And like, every time it comes out, it like he, you know, I've sent him something and he's like, I call them. They say, is it? I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And like, I was lying in bed yesterday morning going through my like, bank account statements as to not my statements, but like my acts, act of like, oh, that feels like there's less money in there than there should be. And there was like a, a little line item from his student loan. And like I took a screenshot and I, like, angrily underlined it with red red marker. I was like, do you have to take care of this? Threatened to sue them, I don't care, you're going to need to fix this. I pay for everything. And I was like, boy oh boy, I really probably shouldn't be texting that at the eight in the morning on a Saturday. Well, you know, it's that take a breath before you text and I do that angry I do that, you know, for work I've done that like that. It's such a hard rule to follow the take a breath, come back to it 15 minutes later and see if you still want to send it like. But it feels so good to send it like it's that I was so mad and after I was off, like I don't even care anymore. He like, he takes it back a couple hours later, probably when he woke up saying he was sorry that he'll bring me back. So like, well, hey, like, why are you this mad? Do you not have Venmo? What? What is he, a drug dealer? He's just going to drop a paper bag off it to your house? No, his bank account information. Because I can send money to his account. Surely he remembers he is like an incompetent when it comes to finances. And so the fact that he said he'd bring me cash next time we saw each other, I was like I said, plus, you don't know what kind of cash is going to be. It could just be rolls of quarters or something like he can be like, no, I don't trust cash at all. I would send him back with roll the quarters and make them go like there's that is something that I feel comfortable with. But that is one thing that I definitely felt a lot not terribly bad about, but like, I felt like it could have been that could have felt a little bit like like failure. You know how the number of times I've done that, Jesus, man, if I had to ask forgiveness for every time I've sent a text that I did, I wish I had it. I mean, I don't I'm normally not angry on texts. I try to, I actually, so I, I practice something called, that my therapist suggested I do called gray rocking. And essentially if you get to because I just had a big issue because my, my ex texts a lot and so I'm trying to like we're trying to bring that down and turn it into emails and turn it into. And it's because when she thinks of it, she says it. I mean, she's text everybody 30 times a day. She just who she is. But that can get very, you know, when your phone is dinging constantly. When it was my wife, it was a little annoying. Now that it's my ex, it's it's a lot. Yeah. And so my therapist like, be a stone and just say okay or. Sure or do that. And I found that nothing pisses my ex off more than just saying, okay. And sure, like it's really insane. Yes. It's you're over insane. I can weaponize an okay like nobody's business. So somebody's like, you're angry. Texts are like my what? I my angry text is just saying, okay. And that was that was, like, way worse than anything I could say. I honestly, it's what I had to do. Like, it's so much better now because we've been able to, like, you got to take the emotion out. Disengage. Yeah. No, no I get some of these changes. Your emotions should be in a phone call. You can really lay. And I will say this is the first time that there's been any angry anything in quite some time. But man, they really can't get to still. Yeah. At that I don't think that ever goes away. Like that's it's the war wound where you will always feel a twinge. Yeah. And and and the answer will often be disproportionate. I anyone who follows this podcast knows I'm the king of the disproportionate response, but but, you know, it's it's, you know, it's tough. It's like for most people, this is just their elbow. And to me, it's an active. It's like a torn ACL or whatever. I'm totally missing up where the things are on your body, but you get the point. Different cells in your to your knee completely differently anyway. You get the point. Yeah. Well I got no, no, none of this has anything to do with dating except that now maybe we can find somebody new to have all of these interactions which who else can give us that to? Well, I mean, I wanted to talk about this because I came across something, and I think there are these all over the country, and I didn't realize they were there. And I don't know how to feel about it. And I don't know if you know about them or not, but there are Facebook groups across the country of women in different regions, and essentially they are. Watch out for this guy. Yeah. So a friend of mine belongs to one of these groups. When she dates somebody, she will then send the picture in the name to this Facebook group and they will and ask, has anybody dated him? Does anybody know. Essentially it's like a police report on the on the date and people oh I know that guy. He's this and it's I mean it's rarely anything great like oh and he's the best guy. It's always I know that guy. And he's you know, he's an asshole. I know that guy. And I think he may be he may drives a van, like, you know, all the back. And it's. I find that terrifying because for me, the only thing, the only people that will be talking about me are the people that are mad at me like nobody's in. Nobody's going to be like, the guy who broke up with me is a great guy. Like, I'm not nobody. But it's not as likely to happen. And even if I have a good reason for breaking up, that how many of your exes got to only say nice things about you and not warned about you because you broke their heart like they're not going to always say nice things about you? And what was really interesting. And then I wanted to get your I could see this just going across your face, but you just read it. You're like this title holder mouth. You're like, ready to come out, but, but, her ex, her ex, had, you know, she had issues with him and somebody asked about him. And so she wrote about it, and her ex found out about it. Somebody tipped him off, and he, like, came over. He was like, out in front yelling because he was, oh, my God. And he would like, he, like, went out. A few people were talking about it, about him, which, you know, by the way, I'm not saying who he got wrong here. I mean, his response tells you all you need to know about him, but like, he was like sending notes to people like, you better not be talking about me. Like it drove him crazy that this was happening, about him. And I'm, like, on one side, I'm like, that's. You can't act like that. You're just, you know, people are entitled their opinion and this is how people are. But the other part is like, what would I do? I wouldn't do that. But what would I do if I found out that there was a group of women that I had previously dated on a Facebook group, warning other women away from me? Well, I have often wish I love it you. You're so want to be even handed about it, but you so love it. I've often wished that on the dating apps they were more like Yelp reviews so that you could get stars on them. Like you review your date, you get some stars. And that is a very helpful metric because don't order, you know, the the the basil fried rice from this Thai place is like good information to have. I won't get it. How? It that feels so wrong to me. Except if somebody who's going to act like a lunatic like you definitely want to warn people about that. Exactly. But your point is also super valid of, like, well, all of those people you're not dating anymore or never like, hopefully people who you don't date would step in there and be like, oh, he's my kid's soccer coach. Such a great guy, blah, blah, blah. Like knowing, oh, that's a good point. I wonder if that happens. I don't know, like I, I'm not I mean New York City is way too big I think for these. Not that they don't exist. I know that there's one about one guy for sure who, like, has dated like all of Manhattan. Wouldn't like. Let's say you had a daughter, wouldn't you want other women to tell her, like, to avoid a particular guy? If he was like, it's it's so hard because. Yes, definitely. But the flip side is I wrote a book. My first book was called, you know, Booty Nomad, and it was all about this woman I had broken up with. And yes, you're laughing. It's called Booty Nomad. I put that title on there so that publishers would pay attention to it, thinking that they would then change it to a real title after they kind of saw the crazy, and then they refused to let me change it. I was so mad. I'm like, it was supposed to just be there to grab your eye out of that stack of manuscripts you have. And they're like, we love it. Don't change. It sounds like it worked. Yeah, well, it did work. I mean, yeah, I'm here to tell the tale. But, but I call my ex in there. I call her the Eater of Souls, and it's a and the point of the book is it's the first half is me demonizing my ex, and the second half is me realizing how ridiculous it is for me to deem to demonize my ex, and that really, she's just another person where it didn't work. And like, that's the arc of the piece. And yet if you had if I were part of your Facebook group in that first half, I would say she's the worst person in the world. And I would say all these awful things about her that are not fair, because of how I feel. But they could also be true for you, too. That doesn't mean that's who she is for everybody. And like, I genuinely think that, like people, people gotta find their own people, you know? But but that to me is the that's the point. Everyone's got to find their own people. Yes. And does a Facebook group like this that essentially distills everything into the one kind of guy you should be dating. Does it accomplish that, or does it make it harder for people because there might be guys on there that you would get along with, and yet the women that didn't get along with them, for whatever reason, are now warning you away. I think that is the connection. I have a very good friend who, you know, as the kind of guy who only dated 25 year olds, and as soon as they got older to break up with them, like, he's like, I love him so much and he's what I would never have wanted him to be. Anybody I know boys like the boyfriend of anybody I know. Yeah. I just felt like you just he just doesn't have, like, the emotional capacity for this. However, think he met a subsequent 25 year old and, they stayed together for quite a long time. And they're married now. And he's doing things that I like. I cannot believe you are acting like this. And it's so sweet and so kind and so homemaking and like, all kinds of stuff that you're like, well, how on earth did this happen to you? But it's because, like, together they make a good pair. And it is like dating is not two people that then completely stay the same. Yeah. Concurrently you change each other and hopefully for the better. I don't know, it's like every bad dating mistake you've ever had, you've ever made that you probably regret lives forever on this Facebook group. Yeah. And yet your Yelp idea is a great idea because it's not about, oh, I was in a relationship with this person for a year. And what did it happen? It's yeah, I went on a date with them and they left halfway through. I, you know, it's all those like more like social more. How are they to date? Not how are they to fall in love with you. And that's that's what you need. How are they to date? Like are they going to call you. Are they going to go. Do you are they going to judge you on your clothes like all these like silly little things that people got? You know what? That's funny that even that is wrong. Like for the like okay. And I can only speak like with, about men who I've dated. So, largest grain of salt with this one. But like, there are some men that you date and like, they don't give you anything back and you're the same person. And then you meet somebody and they're head over heels and they're kind, saintly, like, in touch and thoughtful and want to do things for you and want to like it's not necessarily about like, what kind of person they are. Because like, maybe to another girl that wasn't it. But there's like some chemistry, there's some spark, there's some desire. There's like something there with the two of you that makes them act in a different way than either they usually do or than they do with somebody who they don't have that same spark with. It's just so idiosyncratic that it's hard to say. But I definitely want to know if somebody is going to try to strangle you like that. Well, I mean, look, the murder Facebook group, look, this guy's murdered five women don't date him. Like, yeah, I want to know that 100%. I just I, you know, it doesn't. It never ends that way, though. Like, it starts. It probably started like that, but it never. Yeah. And it probably started as, like a safety issue. Like some. Yeah, some 100. Somebody wanted to warn some girl because like, this guy took her somewhere and like, made her feel very uncomfortable and unsafe and, and they were starting it as a way of warning others, which totally I appreciate and would want. But what you're saying is like, you know, seems like less. Well, it spirals. Oh, I don't know. It's such a it's so hard. It's it's one of those things where there are so many kernels of things that are really helpful, that it's just, you see what happens when it kind of spirals. And is it? There was probably no way for it not to spiral like that's just. But for me, the biggest worry about that is really just how you end up feeling about dating in general, when this is kind of what you're consuming all the time. Like I see awful about it and I don't want to. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. It's it's a little bit of like, you know, we talk about it, you know, a technology thing in another episode. And it is kind of like that, like the fact that dating has become like a, based game. It is a real problem. Like, you know, because I like it's become so gamified that like swiping and all of that stuff is a is it's not real interaction. It's not real judgment. It's it's just like the intention is for those apps to keep you in there and spending more money. But I am so disillusioned by it. And for me, like as a single mom who works full time as a as a business outside of her regular job and is doing a podcast and like, needs to clean and do groceries, the only real feasible way for me to meet somebody new is through one of these apps. But because it's so awful, I won't do it or I do it like so, so rarely that. And it doesn't ever really lead to anything and I but I will tell you, like one of the things, you know, I had a friend ask like, how come you're not dating? I was like, it's not worth the work. Like it's too much work. I don't I don't want to take care of somebody else right now, in all honesty. Like, I'm taking care of two kids. I got out of a relationship where I was the caretaker for 25 years. Yeah. By choice. You know, like my own kids who I become in relationships. Like, I don't want to do that right now, but also I don't want to put in the effort of having to, like, go through the apps to meet somebody. But I asked recently that the friend who said I was like, I just wish there was somebody who could just like, do it for me. Like, pick somebody for me. And they're like, well, there's matchmakers. You could do matchmaker. They're matchmakers. So I thought about doing it for a story, and we reached out to a couple and would you like to know what they said? That they only take men as clients for matchmaking and that women, especially women over 40, are too difficult or threatening for men to match with them, that they don't have enough success, that they don't take them on as clients. Can you imagine that? The saddest thing I've ever heard, I know, I mean, I love so hard I was like, not even the matchmaker can find a match, but so like in one way and made me feel a little bit better. Why it felt so hard for me is like, okay, so just kind of basic. You're single and you're employed. You take care of yourself. Those are my basic right? Like that's hard enough on the ass. But you're telling me somebody who has, like, those kind of like basic adult level criteria for other dates or. That's too difficult. See, this is why I've always said that matchmaking shouldn't be privatized. It needs to be a public utility. It's because they're trying to make money off it, but it needs to be a public utility. It just needs to be like our water and our electricity. You know, it's just it's a right as an American. If we were if we were living in India, you'd be you've been, you'd be matched already. Yeah, you'd be matched twice, though. It's funny, my dad's sisters were like, my dad's Iranian and his sister's both got, matches made for them that whether they were their choice or not, it's a different story. But they ended up marrying them. My dad says they did have a choice, but who knows? I mean, a choice out of three, it was a multiple choice. I don't think that was the choice. It was like, yeah, so then there's so many vigor. I mean, it's funny, I dated very briefly a girl, sorry, a woman, who had been in an arranged marriage for 20 years. She's from India. And she had she had, and I was like, her second person dating after she was out of this arranged marriage for 20 years. Oh, wow. And she ended up dumping me. What she said was that she she really liked me as a person, but she just couldn't relate to me culturally. That makes sense. Which makes sense, but I I'm still trying to wrap my head exactly what that means, because I, All I keep thinking is that, like, if you're in a culture of arranged marriage, I think you approach relationships differently. And and I am not in a culture of arranged marriage. I'm constantly hustling. And that's probably a different environment. You know, I like looking in myself. Was she an American or was she? No. She's Indian. But, like, did she immigrate, like, as an adult? Yes. She'd been there 20. She'd been there 25 years in India. They literally she she got arranged, she had her arranged marriage in the US. Oh, in the U.S. Okay. So, so like she was from India. She'd been here forever. So it wasn't like she didn't recognize. In American culture, when you have immigrant parents, it's very, very different. Like what? Even your American life is different than other American. It's like, yeah, I only have one. My mom was born here. My dad was not. He came here in his late 20s. And the way that I think about dating, even like I think 48 years old, and I would never tell him right now if I were dating somebody until I knew, like, okay, this is serious and we might get married. I still wouldn't tell him because he I can I don't know if this is true or not, are just like the deep feeling that has been instilled in me. But it's it's like it feels illicit to date. Yeah. As a woman, period. I like when I, I remember when I was dating my ex-husband, I was, you know, we met when I was 19, so I was in college and my boyfriend, who was sleeping over my who you know, he was like the weekend and my dad showed up with my stepmom and his cousin. I forget who else it was. You know, we lived in a little, the town is like a tourist town close to DC. So they were, you know, they were just coming for the day to look at the sailboats or whatever. And so I say he showed up and my boyfriend was there, and like, I don't know that he really we were together that day, but I don't know that he spoke to me really. And like, I it was just awkward and uncomfortable. I hate that feeling. That disapproval. It was just and like when we moved in together after like we moved, we started doing when I was 19, moved in together after college, and I didn't ask permission, obviously, because I'm like, I'm an adult, who is this is American. I'm not asking you if me paying my own rent and we're having my own job can move in with my boyfriend. So I just told him and like that, like that was a huge culture shock for him. Huge culture shock for him. So I wouldn't be surprised if, like, she is American, she lives in an American culture. But like your home culture at home culture is at home. Yep. Very, very different than your at home culture. You know, I mean, I should not be surprised at all. I just really liked her. So that was a bummer, but, but, you know, just, that's the bit you weren't. You're married for a long time, you get divorced, and now you have to go out and be rejected again. And that is like, come on. I mean, it's violence. Got what today is violence. I got rejected once. It hurt, it's stop. Okay. I'm sad for you, but like, I don't I'm not saying I'm not saying rebound. Well for me, but I'm saying that like I said, no, but I didn't have to deal with that for a long time. And that was the best thing about being married, was not having to, like, get dumped for 12 years, even though I was, I was never really dumped that much. But when I was at her, I did not have to deal with that for like 12 years. And I suddenly I got to deal with that again on like a regular basis as you try to find your way. I, I don't know, I think that the way that sounds like you're dating, it's like way more serious than I take dating right now. Like I have not ever, I guess. But this one guy went on a couple of dates with, but I'm like, this is. So it was it was interesting and weird because, like, can't even try to kiss me after he didn't try to kiss me on date number three, I was like, that's it. But I was curious. Number three, I know I'm a grown woman. Give me a street. At least. But most times, and I think he has like a date or two, like I don't, I have, I haven't even considered like seriously dating somebody where it's like, this is my boyfriend, this is my girlfriend. We're in a relationship. And it sounds like you almost exclusively like, no, not at all. Actually, not at all. I it was, it was I, you know, I ended up having to break, break it off with a few women because they wanted that and I didn't. So like, no, I think this one was about I was very impressed by her. She was she's very successful. She's very smart, and she's the kind of person that I would have wanted to just have been around. And so when you are I mean, we got to she want a girlfriend because sounds great I know. Well, trust me, she is great. But like, I mean, after we went out for like a month, she was just a great person. And when you are rejected by a great person, it just doesn't feel good. And, I'm with an even better person now, so it turned out fine, but, I think it's not like. Oh, it just did it. You start to feel the hope that, oh, wow, somebody who is going to be the next me. Yeah. And that you know that and you don't. And you know, from dating that doesn't happen. You know you run a lot of people that it's not that they're bad people, but they're just not the kind of great person that you're looking for. It's happened to you many, many times, and I'm feeling rather sad for myself. But it has a what do you mean? You've dated seriously many times since you're married? No, I have not dated. Does not come across all wrong, I have, I have gone. It's because I have ended up dating for a couple of months. But it's not like serious couple of months. It was like, it's so easy when you're a single parent for a month and just be gone like that. Yeah, like you can always see. I can only see that once. I don't consider that every couple of weeks. That's the difference. Oh, because of texting and calling, you end up spending all of this emotional time with each other. We don't have time for that. It's exhausting. I know you don't have time for it. I know, but I know I'm not, like some cereal. Like the girl I'm the. My girlfriend right now is the real first real, like, relationship I have been in since I was divorced. And. And I it's a rejection because you're so. Because she's like, oh, God. If she rejects me, if she rejects me, she's amazing. And I would be, she's I'm going to like, she's going to hear this, darlin, if you if you reject me, it's going to crush this, this poor heart of mine. So don't you hold her hostage in a relationship. Oh, crap. I'm doing everything wrong. Even that's wrong. Well, let me ask you, because you bring something up that I do want to know. It's. It's nothing new about being jaded. It's just a question I never knew the answer to. When should. When is the right date for the first kiss? Number one. At the end of the first day, if it's like there's chemistry there, date one. Really? See? Because if there's no kiss, it tells me there's not going to be date number two. Really? That is not what I came across at all. At all like like, my girlfriend. A little bit slutty. Yeah. No, I think we're learning more about, you know, like, if there is not a kiss in the first ten minutes of our date, I am ten minutes. The end of the date, the end, I don't closer. I think that's what I was told, and I thought that. And then I went out into the world. And that did not happen very often. And it did it. Did you initiate? What are you waiting for somebody else to initiate? No, I could you can sense the vibe when you get to the end and, you know, you can sense a vibe of whether or not they want to be kissed or not. And, that didn't mean that I wasn't going to get a second date. I got plenty of second dates when there was no kiss. And my. The woman I'm dating now, she did it. She told me she was very clear upfront. She's like, I don't like these women. Sorry. She what? She wants. Her body is a temple and she doesn't wanted to. Filed by the Mongols. I married a Mongol. I didn't think I was so much about you, descendant of Genghis Khan. Yeah, I absolutely did. Well, do you know that? You know, genetically. Apparently, we're all descendants of Genghis Khan percentage. Why is though, like coming from Afghan of Burma, Afghanistan like. Definitely. Yeah. Anyway. And has his name. But the, that really surprises me for adult. Yeah. Like for adults. Yeah. I mean, I mean, assuming you're know, it was very, very common and like. And then she got mad at me because I did I'm like, we had our second date. I'm like, we got to have our first kiss on the second date because, you know, we talked. We're just friends because you're going out. Yeah, yeah. Second date? No way. And I had gone on a date with somebody about a year earlier. You know, we had done a lot of talking, and then we sat down to first meet each other. She immediately leaned over, gave me a kiss and said, I just need to get that out of the way so that you know what kind of date this is. Okay? And I appreciated that. That's kind of cute. Yeah, I was cute. I mean, it didn't work for a myriad of other reasons, which I'll tell you some other time. But, but, but I thought, oh, okay, get it out of the way as a way of saying I, you know, I like that move. Yeah. And so when I went to go pick her up, my girlfriend for our second date, I, you know, she invited me in the into her house and I, you know, she was just grabbing a jacket before we leave, and I just walked right over and gave her a kiss right by the fridge. And she hated it. She was so mad. And I had to spend the rest of the day. Did you ask coming, or are you just kind of. Yeah. Well, I mean, I didn't, like, force it on her, like, you know, I. But I didn't be, like. So I want to kiss you now, if it's all right by you. We already like to do now, but we had very flirty texts, like, very flirty with the capital F, and what do you call. You could have, like, teed it up by me. Like I'm going to kiss you now. I'm then gone in it. Yeah. So that you give. I think I might have said that. Actually, I think I might have said that. Which she didn't like. She I think she thought that was probably I. She said the whole thing was she, she had an idea. And horses. I'm by the river. I was she's way too kind. She wasn't like like right in front of her face I would have well, she. The reason why is because she had it in her head. We were going to go down to the beach and she wanted this picturesque first kiss by the water. Not a refrigerator kiss and not a refrigerator kiss. And so I ruined the story by giving her this fridge kiss instead of the beach kiss, which I get, but it just also shows that no two people are alike and you can't go by anything. Well, I think like I she still brings it up. She still think when I said, what's the one thing I did wrong? She's like, that's the thing that was a I, you know, we, we you know, we would we probably got how happy we'd be if he just hadn't done that. Well, I personally think that like, it's a sign of attraction. Right. Like it's and it doesn't have to be some like, gross, corny kiss or whatever, but like, it shouldn't be, I think. Tung Tung on first kiss. Tung on first kiss. Yes or no a little. Oh, okay. Okay, okay. But like, the whole point is like, this is a romantic thing that you're doing, and it's like, yeah, I mean, literally that guy that was telling you about I went on three dates and with not even an attempt at a kiss, I was like, what are we doing here? Yeah. What's what's the point of this? You have friends. We have friends to go out with. I mean, he paid for dinner, which was nice on the last one. So like, find a friend. That page for did pays for dinner is a nice friend, but, like, I don't have time for sick if there's. And it was not like he was, I wasn't the one necessarily pursuing it was like equal. And we both found each other interesting, relatively speaking. And there was like an attraction for me. And I thought, yeah, nope. The things that you want out of a partner is sex. Yes. Love support. Yeah. And then a little more sex. And then so totally in support. And for me, like I'm a I'm a real failure in that like chemistry is super, super important to me and I'm not really willing to wait to let it. It's like, I want to know that it's there from the get go, along with all of the other things. So I know that I'm probably making mistakes along the way. Yeah. Women are asked. I women are asked to not feel that a lot, I think. Yeah. You know, you're like, oh, you're being too picky or this and that. And yet no one has a problem with a guy having that same reaction of being like, not hot enough and not doing a second date. Like, I mean, there's nothing wrong. Well, it's anything like I mean, we've talked about this before too. It's like, not even hot chemistry is something. Yeah. I mean it's she really, truly like an attractive pheromones animal thing that happens. And if that's not there, I won't have the one. I guess it's happened with some people that, like friends of mine who have like, developed crushes on, you know, that have come and gone like, remained friends. And I never let on that there was a crush at all. But like people that I didn't like, we became friends. The attraction grew. There's been like crush back and forth and I guess it's possible, but I've never had that with anybody that I actually dated where it's just like, not chemistry from the jump. I mean, that's a lot of time. That's a yeah, for sure. It keeps coming back to commitment because really for this method to work, there's it's a volume game. You need to meet people like oh right. You need to meet people. So I mean if at one point you have no time and it's not fun for you. Yeah. To do you know, they're just it's not fun to date anymore like these dates aren't fun. Like they're all they also don't know, like what the alternative is like the I mean, people don't meet at bars, like, regardless of what you say, like, I, I don't I don't think that that's ever really been a thing outside of. Yeah, hookups in your very young 20s, you know, everybody is very drunk, which I don't think is really the end at the end of the night, you meet at the end of the night and, you know, and meet thinks has air quotes. What I what you know, I am interested. I will say, in potentially meeting somebody but uninterested in dating. And my kids go to college next. So like the amount of time that I'll have that I can date will suddenly be totally different. And the amount of time I'll be alone will be totally different. And like, yes, while I like being alone, I don't want to be alone the rest of my life. Yeah, I don't think. I also don't want to make sacrifices. I want it to be with the right person. Like if I do it like I want to be with somebody who, like, makes my life better. What is it possible? I think about this? I think about this too much. Probably. But you know, the idea of dating is there's like there's the lane of dating and then there's the lane of doing things you actually enjoy, know, like you have to give up one for the other, you know, oh, if I'm going to date, I'm not going to get to do these five things that I actually really want to do. And is there a way to combine those so that dating is actually about really just doing things you enjoy? Well, that's yeah, that's definitely something that I've considered. Like I that, you know, that aside from apps and a matchmaker, which clearly isn't going to happen. I can't believe that it's awful. Just the worst. God, what I've thought and my brother and I are on great terms right now, but he did give me the advice. Like when I was in college and, like, desperate to meet somebody, he's like, just do the thing that you want to be doing in the rational. Come on. Which is like, I know, like that's a cliche that people hate to, but the thing that is right in that is like, if you're doing things in your life that you're happy with, you're happy with your life, period. Yeah. You know, so like, and I've, I've made a list of stuff that like things that I want to do. So I mean, I did this like as I was feeling sad like a couple of years ago about being divorced. And I thought, yeah, how about instead of being sad about it, use it as the opportunity to do things that you didn't couldn't do before because you would do what he wanted to do or like you were doing things together or you doing things with the kids. So like, I have this list of like, you know, music lessons I want to take and pottery that I want to do and like drawing classes I want to take in like, I need to get more granular with it because a lot of them are like, you know, big ideas. But it'll be fun to be like, this weekend. You should go to this museum and go this. I don't have my life planned that way, but I feel like next year when I'm alone, I. I might do this. You do run the risk of, like, the pottery class filled with single women. That might be just fine. Well, because what's funny is you're like, I don't want to be alone. I mean, being with somebody doesn't necessarily mean being with a romantic partner. Totally a great group of friends. And, yeah, you know, I was happiest over the past four years. Is when, you know, I felt trapped. You know, I'm a single parent with pretty much full custody. I have no time of my own. I couldn't meet anybody in any way. And then I took a stand up comedy class and met this whole group of people that all love the same thing that I loved. And they, you know, and they're all different age groups, you know, this everything from like mid 20s to 50. And I ended up staying in touch with a whole group of them. And we still get together all the time. And, you know, not as much now that I have a girlfriend, but still, like I saw them all the time and it was built on a shared interest. The point is a good one because, you know, there's a lot of times, you know, my, my, my best friend, and I were college roommates our last year of high school. We live, like, a seven minute walk from each other now, you know, she's she's lived all over the world. Well, when I've lived here, but she's been in the city for since my kids are, like, about a year old to a really long time now. And she has a young son who is in elementary school still. And we'll say, like, people always ask like, well, why don't you two live together? And like, we will probably eventually, you know, that that is like that and that kind of relationship to like, we, we want to kill each other half of the time, but like, we enjoy each other's company the other half of the time. And if we get to a place where, like we keep we we are companionship for each other. Like, I'm not opposed to that either. Like the the amount of, reward that comes from good friendships right now. To me, is there as much, if not more than like a romantic relationship. And I think that's definitely something I consider. Yeah, it's never too late for it. And, you know, I as a guy, you know, one more of these gender stereotypes, it tends to be true, is that we have a very hard time making friends as we get older. It's just not something where everybody does though, like it's. So I think you're right. I think you're right. I mean, and, but I just, you know, my my girlfriend has so many friends and she's so social and I'm just like, how do you do that? All my friends went with my ex, you know? And so, like, I'm trying to, like. But but by going and doing something I loved and not giving up on myself, essentially saying, like, I can still learn something, I can still do something that's challenging and interesting. And the people that I meet there are going to be as interested in that as me and that shared interest place to start. And that's the thing that internet dating pretends to do and yet does it. Yeah, because internet dating is supposed to be about shared interest. You lay all these interests on, even in the remotest. Yeah. No, it's about marketing. It's about Mark. You don't think about what is your shared interest for you. You think about what shared interest would I have somebody else respond to. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Yeah. That is not the way to meet somebody. Yeah. So maybe our answer here because, you know, I'm solving your problems out there. Please do people solving your problems just do something you like to do? I feel like if we give advice on dating, that's the one thing we're going to get sued over at that point, right? Oh, well, you know what, right? No advice. No advice. Us. And look, I met my girlfriend on Bumble, so once again, I break every rule that I say, fair enough. And I just had somebody the other night was like, oh, you're Persian, this person is Persian. I'm going to I'm going to give him your number. And I was like, okay. And we texted a little while and he's like, well, if I come into the city, like, would you like to have dinner? I have no idea really what it looks like or nothing about it. I'm like, yeah, sure, whatever. That's it sounds great, you know? So there's all kinds of so many ways. There are, there are. But like, I don't know, I think that I don't know if it's because I'm, we're older or what, but like, I just want it to feel more organic then the apps are like, I and I even did like, you know, when my ex and I were separated when my kids were a year older. So I used online dating, which is significantly different than app dating. I feel like I used nerve and like OkCupid or whatever. The ones that match, whatever, whatever the ones. But like, I have dating, it's just, well, now it's an app. But it started off as an online thing and like online as like a website, right? Like everybody had their profiles, but like, you could write a lot more. There's a lot more. And it wasn't algorithmically driven and it wasn't like, it's so yeah. And I'm sure there was some algorithm, but it wasn't like gamified. Like it is now. Yes. And I had some much more success on that than I'm having with any of the At Slam. And I almost wish we could do like something like that. I know what I mean to it got to the point where it's like my, my point here is not to walk away with the love of my life. My point is to walk away with a good conversation and to walk away with a fun evening of like, I met somebody interesting. And apps are not a great way of getting you there because it starts with a picture. And a picture is not really a predictor of whether or not someone's interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, it is it, I can't, I can't and I'm sure there have been I know you're a visual person, so you're like, I don't I can say the the picture matters. I do want the picture, but I don't know what it is. I've had love like a psychological deep dive into why apps feel so different than, like, you see somebody in a bar and like, you see them. You haven't talked to them yet. I'm using a bar. This never happened to me. But you see somebody like, I want someone somewhere. Yeah, I'm attracted to them. I want to talk to them. I could see that's no different than, like, the app in theory, right? Like you see a picture, you're like, oh, I like that. So this would be the difference, I think, is that when you're in a bar, when you're in a bar, most of the time you see 1 or 2 people, you're looking for one person, maybe that might be interested. Or usually if I'm in a bar, you're not looking for anybody. You're just like friends or something. Oh, and when you're on an app, you now have a menu in front of you and you're going to look through and say, you know, what do I find appetizing? So you're on a journey through multiple people. And I think what kills you more is not, do I like this person? What kills you is, am I going to like the next person better? Yeah. And so you can just keep going and going and going and maybe you say, okay, I'll save this person for later. And your little favorite there and put that to the side the next and next the next. And in your head it's just part of a grouping. It's not you're not invested in any of them. Yeah. It's just, they're all just pictures. They're meaningless and they're not people because you're not really going to connect with them for a while. And even when you start connecting with them, they're not really people until you sit down with them. And that just that's why it's so easy. It's I equate it to a porn addiction, to be honest. Like someone's addicted to porn. They're just constantly cycling through new people, new things, new things. It's like, what's next, what's next, what's next? And they're there forever and their lives go away. And I feel like it's the same when you're on an app. What's next? What's next? It's too much possibility and not enough certainty. And, yeah, that's what that's I. I immediately regretted bringing up porn addictions. I just, feel that that's never a good thing to bring up. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Not there is anything wrong with that. All right. Well, my my my son apparently is waiting for me to pick him up, so I gotta run. Apparently, being a parent still trumps being my daughter's got wisdom teeth that need to be tended to. The whole thing. And I'm glad we talked about this, though. I thought this was very interesting, and I. You had some you had some points there that I especially feel better that you weren't, like, totally on the side of the Facebook group because I was a little worried that this is such a gender divide thing and that I'd be completely in the wrong no, it's a little bit weird. It's a little bit weird, I get it, but it's also a little bit weird. Thanks for watching. Don't forget to subscribe! Leave a like or a crazy comment. We'd love to hear from you and see you again soon.