Teenage Dream: How to Actually Talk to Your Kids Without Embarrassing Yourself

Lili gives Scott a crash course in raising teenagers and shares her secrets to getting them to listen (she has teen twins, so she knows what she's talking about). Scott, meanwhile, shares how he almost poisoned his son because he never watched "Hot Ones."  

Follow us on the socials!

Substack: https://hopeidontfkthisup.substack.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@HopeIDontFThisUp
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hope.i.dont.f.this.up/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61567727127125
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@hope.i.dont.f.this.up

Transcript

0:00

Your failure makes me feel better, Scott, just deal with it.. Well, I'm so excited we're starting this pod with such honesty. This episode is starting with a lot of honesty. And my failures make Lily feel better. It's true. Well, today. Today we get to talk about how Lily's failures make me feel better. Great, because we are talking about teenagers and being a single parent to teenagers. I don't have a teenager yet, but he's about to be a teenager. But Lily's got teens, and I get to learn from you, your mistakes and your triumphs. Okay. I feel like I'm not ready to call anything a triumph, but. Okay, I'll bite. I'm Lily, single mom to teen twins father. I'm recording in here, and I'm Scott, single dad to a pre-teen boy. Yeah, it's under the sink. We're two old friends trying to navigate a single parenting and spending the whole time thinking, I hope I don't fuck this up. First off, I do want to say, for anyone watching this and not just listening to it, I am wearing sunglasses. The reason why I'm wearing sunglasses is not because I'm an asshole. That's b. Being an asshole has nothing to do with the sunglasses. Those are separate issues. Unrelated. I have a weird little eye infection thingy. This is not pinkeye, but it's a weird little eye infection thingy. And, I am incredibly vain, so I am wearing my sunglasses. But it does seem like it's the kind of thing you should be wearing if you're talking about teenagers, because let's look cool. If we're going to talk about the coolest people on the planet. I don't know that any teenager would call that good. What? What you're telling me is that a teenager wouldn't look at this cool ass dude and be like, that guy. That guy's going to buy me beer, man. That guy guy's number one about teenagers. They are going to humble you in ways that you did not know. You could be humbled yourself. I don't really. You're just so like, And you have no idea what. Wait, you on the other side? It sounds like we're about to go into a very personal, deep, dark place before we do that, before we rip open the soul and then just cry at what we find. Let's, talk about our parenting fails of the week. Yes. I mean, I feel like this fail is only an internal fail. Maybe, my my kid had a thing at, at his school after school, like, it was 6:00. College workshop. Come and learn how to do all the stuff. We're going to talk about financial aid. We're going to talk about Navient and the like, all these things that in college, when we apply to them, I had no idea about because we didn't have and we had a pen and we had a typewriter or pen paper. And that was like you wrote your essay. He applied, you sent them your money, you got rejected. And so I went, I was, I, I was texting him. I was like, hey, are you coming to the thing? And he said to have you. And I thought I was doing a very good parenting thing by making it his choice and hoping that he would choose the right thing. And I said, it's your call. And he said, okay, then I want the college counselors will just tell me. And I did not say, this is them telling you you're an idiot. And I said, okay, fair enough. And I it so my intention was to let him live through the consequences of his actions and not know anything about college. But in separate sessions, I went by myself. I took copious notes, which are sitting here on my desk somewhere, and I came home and I just told them everything that they said, I know I did, I don't know, because I was too panicked about it. I was like, you've got to do this. You got to do this, you gotta do this. Have you done this? Have it? Because ultimately I will say, like, my heart was like, if he doesn't do all this and no, he'll never leave my house. He'll never go to college, you know, that's. Yeah. That fear is very real. That is a very real fear. Visceral fear. How about you? Well, first, can I just tell you, you are forgiven, 100% forgiven the way you have to make yourself essentially suffer in order to be, you know, stick to your guns and you end up being hurt more by than they are by being stuck to your guns. I mean, I've done that so many times. Yeah, just to have the illusion of sticking to my guns. Yeah. And it all, like, backfires on me. So you are forgiven. I know you're pain. My mind is. I almost murdered my son. Oh. So the method of murder here is the method of almost murder. Of attempted murder. My son loves peppers, and he likes to eat these peppers like they're. They're like bite sized sweet peppers. You just. Oh, yeah. Yeah, those little baby ones. He loves those, so I don't normally buy them. The, those are ones that his mom actually picks out and purchases. So that's the thing that they have together. But I was at the store and I had to buy them, so I bought a thing of peppers and looked at it and they were called Scotch peppers, and I, I couldn't think of anything blander than the word scotch. I'm like Scotch tape, like, well, some of you that know peppers might already know where this going, those of you. But look at it from my point of view, the word scotch, it's Scotland. Blend is food on the planet. Scotch tape transparent like nothing about scotch. Sounds hot or dangerous or anything. It sounds bland. Have you ever watched the hot ones go. Oh, sorry, I have not watched Hot ones. I've missed out on one cultural phenomenon, but. And it almost killed my son. So I brought him home. He's like, can I have some peppers in my salad? I'm like, sure. So I cut him up. I have to, like, scrape out the seeds and everything. And I put them all in the salad and they look a little weird, but I'm like, oh, whatever. And I give him a salad and I go downstairs and then a few minutes later, it's, I'm here. I just hear a blood curdling scream, and I run upstairs and he's like, ha ha ha ha. And what happened? And, he's like, well, these peppers looked weird, so I didn't want to just stick them in my mouth, so I just stuck them with the tip of my tongue. And now my tongue is on fire. Thank God your kid is smart. Well, the reason why is because when he was little, I said, hey, do you want to eat this little pickle? And he said, sure. He was like maybe two years old. And he popped into his mouth. But it was a jalapeno, and I didn't know. And he just went hot, spicy, hot. And he, like, it was like I almost I. So this is not the first attempted Pepper murder you've heard him before. He took his time this time, and, and so this town burned him for maybe, you know, maybe 15 minutes. And, you know, I gave him some milk and stuff, and he was okay. But what's funny is he was not the one that suffered. I was the one that suffered. Because, as you may have heard earlier in the story, I was scraping out pepper seeds. I didn't realize that my fingers were now covered in, like, incredibly hot pepper juice. And you wonder what's wrong with your eyeball right now? And I scratched my eye. My, I was on fire. My nose was on fire, and it took two days for it to finally go away. Two days. And I'm washing my hands with olive oil because, you know, a little tip. You need to use oil to get rid of pepper oil. It was agony for days. Did you look at, like, where the Scotch bonnet pepper lies on the Scoville scale? Do you know? Oh, yeah. It's like right at how what how a binary, you know, let's see where Scotch lies. Here is a hole. It. Well, it's right at the top. Third. It's. How is it responsible for the store to not put, like, fire flames coming on on the all it did, it just said Scotch pepper. Like a little tiny Scotch bonnet. Pepper bonnet. Is there any what's more innocuous than the word Scotch? The word bonnet. Like little kids. Where little girls where bonnets? Those aren't death hats. Let's see, it doesn't makes this name. Makes no sense. This is all on you. Because I don't know how much that scotch bonnet pepper is bad. Why would I know that? I am surprised that they're selling a whole bag full of Scotch bonnet peppers. It was this big. It was, like, really big. And I'm holding my hands out, and I don't know, like the little snacking peppers that you're talking about. And they are they they're not the same shape as a Scotch bonnet pepper. But I can see how in size and color you could get confused if you didn't read, but I'm just dumbfounded you weren't scared. Squatted and you just said nope. There's like, no bell went off. Or like, wait, I have never in my life heard of a Scotch bonnet pepper. And then I asked my mom, and she had never in her life heard of a Scotch bonnet pepper, and she didn't know what the white man gets, since they know it's an innocent mistake and you've hurt your son before. He's learned his lesson already. But I will say it's. It's certainly. I'm sorry you tried to kill your son with your ignorance, but it's it's an innocent mistake, and you should absolutely forgive yourself. So I already got punished, man. I got punished way worse than he did. That was. That was something, man. When my nose, I just scratch my nose. Well, you know what? I've learned something. Is it to reap? I did read it. Said Scotch bonnet pepper. It didn't say Scotch bonnet pepper. Caution. This will murder you and your family. Like it didn't say anything but Scotch bonnet peppers and, like, little tiny print. There was nothing on this label that said, you're about to enter into a world of intense pain. Like, I feel like this is a great lesson in, like, the hubris of man and in this case, I specifically mean men. If you don't know, you'll ask. I have to tell you. I have to tell you. I'm sorry, but I am not feeling forgiven right now. I really feel stupid. I just want to say you are not forgiving me. And you are like. And it's not that my mistake isn't forgiving. Is that my sense that I'm a man has not been forgiven? Still, it's just that I'm male. It's not been forgiven. I don't think I've ever pick something up at the grocery store, not knowing what it is and then not been like, oh, shoot, the what is that? And Google that really quickly enough. This is about me. Trust in institutions that I guess I should not trust in this place you thought you knew. This is not so. No. This was I thought that supermarkets would put warnings on things that were dangerous and there was no warning on this, so I assumed I'm like, I trust super stop and shop to not want to kill me. So I trust that if it doesn't say warning, if you touch it incorrectly, you you know, your hand could burn off. It didn't say anything. It was literally just a little tight white thing. Scotch bonnet pepper. That's it. As if I know all the pepper law, you know, put it on the bag of onions. Like, might make you cry either. But most people know that. Listen, I'm impressed with your grocery store that has Scotch bonnet peppers because I live in the city and, like, no, I would have to hunt. So like, nice. Nicely done. Your grocery store having a wide variety of pepper. I think we're going to move on. I feel I feel that I was forgiven for one thing. And then just attacked for something completely different. Parenting. You're absolutely forgiven because it was a mistake. Your nail brain. You're not drinking. All right, well, talking about crazy male brains, you are the proud mom of, well, two teenagers, but, yeah, a boy and a girl. I'm sure are very different styles. But I have a about to turn 11 year old. But he's also hitting puberty right now. Is his voice cracked in class the other day. He's like, which he wouldn't tell me about. Like I had to hear about it, like second hand from one of his friends. Like he wouldn't tell me that it that he would never have told me that either if my voice cracked, I think I was so proud. I'm like, oh, really? What about what happened to yourself? You think I remember that? Plus, I was, you know, I was such an awkward kid. He's he's not 18. Like, let's not let's actually I'm hoping it happens next week. I'm still waiting for it. But when it happens, I'm going to be very excited. But, and I'm dating someone who, has a, 13 year old daughter. And so I'm starting to hit these teen, you know, personalities and traits and things like that. And it is really interesting to me how different it was than, you know, raising an up until ten year old boy, which is a very different thing. And then it did strike me that it's even more different and more probably difficult in some ways as a single parent. I mean, I just feel like it feels like everything is, but it also feels that the dynamics are different. Because this with me, there's a little undercurrent of anger at me that he has because we went through a divorce and that's totally normal, and he should have that. But when teenagers are already angry at their parents and then they have a little bit more anger that they feel is completely justified. And probably, you know, from their point of view is to feed that. I can just see that even spiraling out of control. So I, I would just love to know how you navigated all of that and are still navigating all of that. Well, I will say that I probably have a radical parenting point of view in that I love teenagers. I find it, so interesting and vulnerable and raw, like as a human beings at this point in their lives, actually starting from like that middle school age, that preteen tween age, because every like you, it's literally like their skin has been ripped off and they're like, emerging from the cocoon of their childhood, like, it's just like everything is hard and vulnerable. And they're developing like, thought processes and interesting ideas and like their own identity. And I find that kind of great. So this is a thing that I often tell parents who don't have teenagers yet, because the way that, you know what, somebody will tell a baby, like somebody with a newborn like, oh, enjoy those cuddles. It gets hard when they're two or like whatever platitude bullshit that people say to parents to make them feel bad. For some reason, I try to do the opposite for teenagers and like, I think just kind of getting into that mindset of this is a crucial time in their lives changes how you see everything about like, oh, this is going to be hard, or I'm bracing for it. Or, you know, I already see the anger. Like if you just set your mind to like, this is so much easier than toddler. This is so much easier than an irrational three year old. I think that might help. Just like from the outset, when you are have a younger kid, you know the way that you get a young kid to do something is you do it with a lot less justification than you do as you get older. And now suddenly when the kids are older, it's kind of like you're a lawyer and you have to justify every point that you make. And like, you know, you you have to actually back your crap up. Yeah. And how do you do that without going insane? Okay. This is an interesting so fascinating that you you're bringing this up because I just recounted to my stepmother, who has no biological children of her own, and she's like, loves to hear, like, parenting stuff like this because she's just kind of, like, intrigued by it, as if from a anthropological point of view. So it's recounting this, like bad fight that I had with my son and how I was worried and like the the subsequent like we had a screaming match on the phone. And then when he came back from his dad, we have the like, sit down long talk. That is his sister was involved into. And it was like there was tears and we were going through and like she is like, you know, it's really kind of amazing that you just don't tell him this is how it is and you explain it to him. And I was like, well, yeah, but that's how we've always had it. She's like, I know I saw you do it with them when they were little. And I think that that's part of the advantage that I have right now with them as teenagers is that it's just my default positioning is I've never enjoyed authoritarianism, luckily for me. But I also remember really vividly what it felt like being a kid. Like I have an emotional connection to people being condescending and people not assuming that I could understand or, was aware even of like, these. The subtext that was going on. And I was an incredibly perceptive kid. So the way that I was parented throughout their whole lives leading up to now has been with a boatload of explanation, with reasoning with and ultimately, I think this is the big difference. And this is what I hear back from my kids, too. It's like, I've treated them like full, complete human beings their whole lives that are that are equal to like to that the respect that they deserve is equal to the respect that I deserve. And I think that makes it easier. Not like, you know, it makes it harder because like, I, we have to sit there and have like conversations about like, even though that I have this rule that you're not going to sleepover at your girlfriend's house. And he's like, well, I hate when anybody has any pedagogy that they have that they just believe in. And like, we're having this back and forth that's like emotional and tough. But like we came to a conclusion at the end of it, which was basically, I will never change my point of view on this. It's just one of my beliefs. Just like I believe that we sit down to dinner every night together, and it's not normal that everybody does that. But like that is one thing that I really value and this is another thing that I believe in. And he's like, well, I won't ever agree with it. I'll do what you say. And like, we got it that the way we resolved it was like, okay, well, we're not going to come to the same. We're not going to compromise. We're not going to come to a position, but we can agree that we're just gonna move on. And it was like a complicated long now situation, but it really is like, you know, it's the investment that you made all the way up in this. And it it turned out way better than fights that I had with my mom, for example, like when I was a teenager. And I would just like storm off, slam the door, and maybe two weeks from that door, Slam would talk to her kid. And I'm actually fairly similar to you in that I've been trying to, at least I think of it as including him in his own upbringing. Yeah. You know, a lot of times I think we almost, you know, we treat them like a pet and not a child, you know, it's like I'm doing this for you. And you made. You may not understand now, but you'll understand later. And, yeah, you know, you don't see the world the way I see it. And my thought has always been, you know, well, if you don't see it the way I see it, I should explain the way I see it. Like they should have some sense of why I'm doing what I'm doing. Otherwise the world. I'm a representation of the world. The world seems capricious, right? The world will seem like it doesn't make any sense. And a lot of guilt doesn't make sense. Yeah, but at least I don't. I can make sense, you know? And, like, this is why I'm doing this. This is where I'm coming from. And, I think the word that it does build up in is it builds up trust in your kids that are doing things for a reason. Yeah. And the thing it is the most valuable thing. And we like to talk about as parents, you know, don't break my trust. You know, this is like. But trust is a two way street. Yeah. And you know, sometimes we forget that. And teenagers, especially with that word, gets thrown around a lot. It seems the word trust totally. Well, I mean, it's it's not something they if you didn't do it all along, it's not something you can start now. I mean, at ten, 11, maybe you can do better. Like if you feel like you haven't given them that trust. I mean, I know, like, I mean, maybe I got lucky and I got really good teachers and like that and, you know what they've gone through despite like having, you know, we separated at 13, which is like it was the thing I was most upset about when, when my, my ex and I separate is like, this is exactly the wrong age. Like, this is what I mean, I really am, but 13 is the wrong age. Everything's going to be terrible. They're going to hate us like it. Just like imagine this like cataclysm of teenage time that we are about to unleash on ourselves. It didn't happen, but and that was because and I think this is like ultimately the advice here is like, you have to change who you are as a person rather than expecting like to mold them and have them change. And then what we did like through the separation was like, you know, my ex and I suppressed our, egos and our anger so that we could have dinner together every night for that first year except for the weekends. And he came over and had dinner every night together. And like, we were still family and like, we were really committed to being like, we are still a family. And I was fucking pissed at him. And we had had our own, like like it wasn't about like, you know, everything is is perfect. It was we are still in this together. We were going to do what we told you we were going to do, which is like, be your family and both be here and both be involved all the time. So we did that. Yeah. I mean, and and we kept like, you know, we let them have their feelings about stuff like met a daughter when we first told her, like ran into the bathroom and it was the only room in the house that she could lock both of the doors and know that we probably wouldn't try to get into her. Like when we told her we were getting separated, she locked herself in the bathroom and cried for hours, and it was a long time till we could get her out and like, you know, normal teenage stuff. But the only thing that we could do is make ourselves better instead of trying to make them better. And I think that's important. It's funny, there's like a litany of stories, and it's almost like you almost. You need to share them because I think it's good to hear, but it's just so hard to share. It's that moment when you tell your kids, yeah, how did it go? Like when I, you know, when I, we told our son and same way, you know, did it together in a very, you know, unified way. Yeah. It's funny he he didn't really react at all. Would you like to know what my son did when my daughter was mad? And what did your son do? We were all sitting in a in our room, like on the bed kind of talking about it. And she, like, zoomed into the bathroom and slammed the door. And he's were like, are you okay? Body like, is there anything that you want to ask her? Say he's like, what are we having for dinner? And we're like, no, it's okay. Like if you're upset about this, like it's a big deal. Like we get it. Like, is there nothing that you want to ask or talk about? And he's like, you're both still going to be my parents. Yeah. All right. Good to see you both, Stone. Yeah. Okay, then I'm fine. And it's true. Like, I think that at that age, like 12, 13. And I do think my, my kids had it relatively easy because like, at that age, there were definitely, like, mood swings, like nobody. My son was like a live grenade. When it was time to get up and go to school. And he didn't eat like we were just truly we're just like, back away from him because we didn't want to set him up because it and it and and I understand that because I am that way. Like there's nothing that you could ever do. And I hated when people tried to, like, make me happier. So I would just like we would just not talk to him. We just make sure he was doing the thing that you need to be doing. We get him to the bus and then luckily, the pandemic happened in the middle of middle school, so he didn't have to wake up quite so early and didn't have to get into the bus to get to school, because we did school from home for a couple of years. But there's like big, big like that hormonal swing. It's it's true. Like it happens and it affects different brains differently, obviously, because there's a boy and a girl in my house at the same age going through the same thing. It's been kind of fascinating. It's like an experiment. You have a control here. Like, truly. I've called it my in-home biology experiment since they were born. Because, like, all of the gendered stuff or like, you know, the the preconceived gendered stuff like you see play out and how it happens or or, I mean, we weren't supposed to call that gender anymore, but that's sex based stuff. I don't know what to do about that. And I know this is a I every time I wade into this, I get into trouble. And it's just funny how I think we've just made it so complicated that it's even hard to talk about it. I mean, like, yes. And I think that part of getting old, like we are, is like just accepting that we're wrong, probably about most things. So we apologize. I would say it's not even wrong, per se. It's just we're trying to be part of a conversation that we don't have the language for anymore. Yeah, that was a fun thing, that there was a lot of conversation about that, like around 1213 too, because like, that's the age at which kids are starting to like, recognize things like, you know, homosexuality and transgender and like all of the things that start coming up at puberty, like, and I remember like, my kids have an uncle who's, you know, fairly young and, and gay and has like, this great kind of extreme, buoyant group of New York City LGBTQ friends and artists and like, you know, so it's something in their world and they were aware of and like, I remember talking about it with my ex and like some friends of ours and like getting called out immediately about like, oh my God, you can't say that. Like, that's not how this is. It was like when we grew up, we didn't have it's like this. I mean, not to say that we didn't have gender people like, but like the language around it, the ideology, like the the way to talk about things appropriately without hurting people, like we're learning to. Yeah. And when I also say that like this shifts and it doesn't shift because it has to shift. It shifts because we decide, it shifts and the same, same way with race, the same way with anything where we're like, well, what are the appropriate words for me? The people who are appropriate to make those decisions are the people who are talking about, you know, a black person gets to decide what I call an LGBTQ person gets to decide when I call them, and that will change. And you can't get mad at the fact that it changes. It can be arbitrary to a certain sense that it changes. Like the difference between, I mean, I this is where I, I get into a ton of trouble, but I do like the difference between saying the word colored and saying the word black is a difference in how a black person feels about being called that. And we as white people have no sense of what that feels like. And we just have to be like, we understand why you no longer like being called colored, that, that that makes you feel bad and that black me doesn't make you feel bad. And we are on board with what that should be. Our parents don't understand why that changed, and they don't understand why they can't use the word. They used to be able to use the word before, but you just have to accept the fact that it's not your decision to make. And it's an interesting point for you specifically, I feel like we've talked about this before, but like your son is adopted and he's black. Yeah. So it must be like an interesting, you know, the puberty with a young black boy. There was this one article, that I read that devastated me for years. I was in the New York Times. I was, but this white woman who had adopted two black sons and the, it was called When black Boys become Black Men. And it was their kids. The her sons turned 12 and suddenly they went from being the cute black boy to being the black man. Yeah. And what a hard time she had with it and what a hard time she had. Like, what she. Her instinct, her instinct was to cut their hair a certain way so that they seem younger or less threatening and like all the things that you want to do to protect, but then having to realize that part of this is you, like you are looking at them and what are you being triggered by? And you're like wanting to make them look like something that doesn't trigger you. And you have to be able to look at yourself and say, my own prejudice. I don't care if you've adopted a black child or not, you're still prejudice like everyone is. Everyone has a prejudice. And so you have to look at yourself and be like, what about how I'm trying to shape him is good for him? And what about how I'm trying to shape him is just good for you. My kids are mixed and like we I am and like their dad is, but they don't look it. I mean, they're not black mixed. So like, we're mixed with Asian, so like, it's totally different, perception, you know, like, we look white, I look white, their dad, like, you look at, I mean, like, there's something in there, but I'm not sure. But like, he's perceived as white and my kids look white as shit. So there's nothing that we like that they have all they have all the benefits of every kind of white privilege that you could possibly like just walking about on the street. Of course I'm irrational, and when I get in fights with my kids too, but I try really hard to be rational and it really annoyed them recently. Each one of them separately, like when we were having like disagreements when I. I'm forgiving them in the moment by citing signs about it. I'm like, listen, this, this is the age. Like as a teenager, you're supposed to be mad at me, you're supposed to be pushing away. You're supposed to be identifying something in me that you're not. And like that is a biological imperative. And like, I get it. And then I'll give the button. They're like, oh, come on. It's not just because we're teenagers that we feel this way. And I shouldn't mock their boys like that. I'm sorry. They, It's okay. Do not tell them this podcast exists. It will just make your life harder. I know, I know, I know. Well, they don't care about the other business that I launched. So I'm like, yeah, that's true. There's total lack and indifference in anything that you do is definitely come in here. It's, it's totally fine. They're vaguely proud of me, but that's about it. That's nice, but yeah, it's fine. I know the one time I got a nice card and I put it up on my wall with my son telling me that he was proud of me, that most people who got laid off with just wait for a job. And I made things happen. I was very cute about, but the point is, like, they don't think that all these things that are happening to them are the result of chemicals in their brain changing like, this is just who they are. And like that's the hardest part for me is like to find like something interesting, why this is happening to you. I understand from a rational point of view why you're doing this and why you feel this way, even though it's upsetting to me or whatever. And they're like, no, it's not just that. This is who we are. This is what we believe in, or this is why we're like, whatever the thing is. Like, they know that science, too, because I've talked about it with them and they've read about stuff their own or watched YouTube videos. So they're oh yeah, guy by God knows who. I'm sure I'm very vetted expert as well. My son does watch a lot of history and science by people who seem like they know what they're talking about, but I don't yeah, they seem they seem like they know what they're talking about. Sure. Mr. Beast seems like he knows what he's talking about. I know, I know, my, You know, as I was saying, I was recounting this argument to my stepmom, and, you know, she had said like, oh, it's kind of fascinating that, you know, they're listening to you even in that fight, like when they're saying things back to you, like what you're you're recalling to me here is like tells me that they're listening to you even in their anger. You know, they said they said, like, you know, you're the best mom of any of the moms that I know and blah, blah, blah. And like he said that in the middle of the fight and like, I would never have said anything that kind like, well, I'm in a fight with her. It was hearing my stepmom tell me that I had done a good job, because she could hear the positive in my story, that I wasn't even aware of it. I was just recounting like, oh, at the end of it. Like, we made up and we hugged and we moved on. Like that was the positive for me. She's like, that's not the positive here. It's like it's a you're listening to them be they're involved in this discussion and you hear what they have to say and they know that. So they're sitting there with you having it and like see the key they're repeating back to you the values that you're hoping to instill in them. Yeah. And I think that's important. So it's not like there's not like one answer. Right. Like it's just an entire human all of the time. I mean, it's a foundation. Like you built a foundation there and I think, I mean, I, I disagree a little bit when you say that, you know, you have to do it from when you're young. Otherwise, you know, you're kind of shit. I don't I, I'm paraphrasing, but I don't I don't think it's ever too late to start to build trust with your children if you're going to change and try to do that. And let's say that you had a parenting style or your co-parent, you know, your former spouse or whoever had a parenting style, and you let it happen because that happens a lot, too. But, I don't think it's ever too late. It's just that if you're going to change, I think you just need to be consistent and you need to commit to that change. Like if because you have a long road ahead of you, building trust is time and you need probably a couple of years of sticking to it, and it's not going to play the way you want it to, and it's going to feel hard. And my my dad was somebody who, you know, we hear a lot of this podcast about me and my dad, but my, my dad was very much somebody who told me how things should be. Yeah, he was an old school. But when I hit my teenage years, he started I started pushing back and he started to show me that respect and trust. And it took me a long time to trust that trust. And it took years for me to trust that trust. But eventually, you know, we got to the point where he just would put his money where his mouth is, and he'd be like, you know what I say, I trust you, I do. I'm going to let you stay by yourself for two weeks, and I'm just going to call to check in. But I'm going to trust that you're going to make good decisions. He would be consistent. Yeah. And that this was really something he believed and was doing and wasn't just something that he was doing to try to like, you know, shut me up or get me to do things in another way. And for teens now, like, you know, I busted my son because I saw him on the Find My Phone app and I was talking to, talking to my best friend about this, it and my and my, you know, my parents about this moment. I set my with my dad, too, and they're like, God, it sucks that teenagers can't even lie to their parents anymore. And like, it's like kind of a funny thing to say, but like, when I put myself in my teenager shoes myself, like, there are plenty of things that I lied about and nobody found out. Oh, yeah, any wiser. And it's probably for the best for both sides. But now my kids don't have the ability, the autonomy, just because of, like how? I mean, I could take them off of find my phone so that they're not in the family for you. But I don't want you really do. I don't want could you? Yeah. Well, it's like it just sucks for them. Like that is an interesting I think that as parents, generationally, like, we have a lot more communication and trust with our kids and like, the relationships in for a lot, in a lot of cases are better than they used to be with the, the, you know, the kind of parents that raised us or what our relationship was like. And it's not, you know, it's not a black and white, obviously, but like for a I think the majority of us, we did not communicate truthfully with our parents most of the time or but but are they owed that. And then this is a good argument and we're going to have this conversation because we're going to have a guest on who specializes in helping people make their kids more independent. And, I think there are ways in which our kids are more dependent than ever. I think yours a little different, cause you're in the middle of the city and yeah, it's a little different vibe. But, you know, for across the country, you have because of technology, because we're able to solve our worries through things like find my phone. It does stunt your kids because your kids know that they are never truly alone, and they know that they always have it out on things. They know that there's somebody can swoop in and help them and when I was by myself during the summer, it was, you know, this is a long time ago, a hurricane hit. So I was by myself as a hurricane hit. And there I was, just in the house by myself with my dog. As a hurricane's coming, my parents had no way to get to me. I'm 16 years old. It's barreling down and I had to somehow weather it for a week after no power, no anything. I had to figure out how to feed myself. I had to figure out how to light the damn house with candles. Like I had to do all that myself. And they never drove up there. Like, they waited a week and they came up when they normally come up and they're like, listen, once they knew I was fine, they were like, you can figure out how to handle this. Go ahead. And that's because they didn't have the tools to know. They didn't have constant communication. And I do think that that's something that we have a hard time like doing now. It just gave me like for those who are watching this, just listening, like the amount of like shock and head shaking that I just did, Scott it was it was amazing. Like watching Lily go through all stages of just astonishment was amazing. She couldn't imagine it just inherited. I know, and yet, you know, it's all fine because. But I would, I would it bring it back, though, to the same thing you were talking about? Which is like that trust in your kids is not just about, you know, trusting that they will make a good decision. It's also about trusting that they know how to take care of themselves as they get older. It's trusting that they can navigate stuff without you. And that, I think, is the hardest thing for parents, single or otherwise, to to do. Especially nowadays. I will say I trust most of these teenage girls there to like be like take care of themselves and eventually clean the house if it gets too dirty. Like those, I trust it. It what is amazing boys. And it's not just my son, it's across the board. Sons who I the moms I talk to and they're like, I can't believe I don't know how they're going to survive in this world. I mean, like, and my daughter has this question about her own brother, like, how is he going to be okay. And and so I was like, baby, we just got to let him do it. He'll figure, oh, look, if you let us do it, we do it. And that and the difference is it you wait until you have to do it on your own. And I think that's maybe one of the differences. Like, girls will take initiative to want to like, you know, do something or have something of their own or make a like in many cases, or be responsible for themselves. They will take an initiative to do that before it's given to them. In my experience, I found that strong boys wait until they have to take as much need, and that's where I'm going to. I am going to so strongly disagree with you that it might shut down our internet connection. That's how strongly I disagree with that. Because because my my son has learned to take so much initiative. And he makes his own breakfast when he gets up in the morning. Sometimes he wakes up an hour before I do. I want to be well, I know well he's not. No. Stay away. No. Bad. Better it. He is just so self-sufficient in a lot of those ways. And it's because he's had to be and I, I chalk that up honestly to the fact that it's a single dad single son relationship, because I don't parent the way, single mom would parent in a lot of ways. You mean you don't compensate for the lack of a two parent household by trying to do absolutely everything I do? But I do it in the other way. I overcompensate for the lack of hugs he might be getting. I overcompensate for the sort of emotional support and to the point where he tells me to stop. Like he's like, you got to stop like and I and but I but I maybe because I'm a guy and so I, I don't have as low an opinion of myself as women seem to have. I don't doubt that he can take care of himself when he wake up and I say, hey, take your shower. And before I wake up, I want you to be showered and ready to go to school. And he does it. I wake up, he's dressed, showered, ready to go to school, and it's because I've never doubted for a second he can do it. Just like what? Everything that you've just said right now. Like you're you're absolutely correct. And we're what we've done here throughout is I make these sweeping generalizations about teenagers or girls or boys. And when it ultimately comes down to it's like the individual, you know, you and the relationship. Yeah, it's there, you know, to know that like and I think that's the biggest hope that hopefully we can put out there is that all these things that seem insurmountable, they're surmountable by the relationship that you're able to build with your kids. Yeah. And that's what matters. Like I built a relationship with my son where he's he does that stuff. Yeah. And you built a relationship with your kids where they send you notes about how proud they are of you, and it sure, it's once and not like, regularly. The way you deserve that control. Yeah. That's what it's a good point you're making. I make them occasionally. This is my one good point. I feel like this is, Is it something? Oh, I'm just just go to the quick. Now to the quick. Do you often make me feel much better about lots of things? I'm very sorry about guys. Can I can I make. There's one point I wanted to make, and I think we can, you know, but, I meant to make it earlier when you were talking about how you, like. You're talking to your kids about. Well, I know that it's biologically is why you're thinking this, and this is a hormonal thing. And it just made me think of when I tell women that they're acting the way they're acting because they're on their period, and the the last thing any woman ever wants to be told is that their emotions are invalidated because of their hormones. Yep. And it may be heightened and it may be your reaction is a little bigger because of it biting, right? Literally biting my tongue right now. But go on. It is funny because the, it's the analogy between that and trying to tell a teenager that the reason they're feeling that is because they're hormones. They're probably going to take it the same way. I've never said it's hormones. I will clarify that. I've never said, look, I'm not, and I just got so mad. I know, and look, I'm not saying that that's what popped into my head, because people do say that. It's an analogy. I've said the I will say brain development is where those quick and easy and not Lily feels attacked. Right now. Lily feels very twice now. She's been attacked. It's never. You're right like that. That that's. I will say, like that is exactly when you brought that up, I was like, oh, shit, that must have felt bad. You're right. Like so. Yes. So you're you're you're right about that. You're wrong to ever have said iniquities. They were both your mess. And I want to I sat there through the computer. I am sorry but that there is nothing more male in the world than trying to invalidate, you know, a woman's opinion because of the point, you know, where they are in their cycle, because that comes up at times when it's like, well, I'm week one, so it has nothing to do with it. And these like, you get to say that, oh, are you PMS because you don't know shit you stupid penis. Have her like, I'm sorry, I just had a relationship. The problem is, is that it's like a blanket statement. And my hope would be that, okay, I'm not going to say it to my kids anyway, because, like, that was just so effective. What you just said. I'm just not going to say it anymore. I thought I was being rational. I may change, you may change. Well, I look, I've learned over a long time and here I will say, here's a dirty secret, a secret you already know the answer to. Yeah, most guys know that's true. I think most guys know that you don't turn into an entirely different person when your hormonal cycle is different, but it is a easy way to score a point, and it is an out. And I think, you know, when you are arguing with someone who are, oftentimes you will you lose, you're losing an argument. The going into the emotional argument, whether it's because of your, you know, your gender entirely or whether it's because of where you are in the cycle or whatever, saying while you're making a emotional argument, I'm making a logical argument. It's just the way that guys try to win arguments and and it is horrendously shitty, and it is something that's probably one of the hardest crutches, I think, for guys to let go of because it's just so effective. Oh my gosh. And, and, but I think that most guys are aware that it's a crutch and they are using it the same way. Honestly I think, you know, we all as, as in relationships, we we have our crutches to win arguments, things that we always go to because logic isn't working, you know, because you're in the wrong or whatever reason. That is one of those that guys go to. And I think letting go of that was such a game changer for me and how I dealt with women in general, and it came from just having mostly female friends and seeing them, you know, having real conversations about, I want to apologize on Scott's behalf to every girlfriend or spouse he's ever had. I wasn't, and she didn't mean it. I didn't say it. I did it in my I let go of it in my 20s and not saying it was up till like last year, but I, I think I'm going to be honest about it. I just think, where did you learn to do that? Oh my God. Like what a terrible thing. Learn. It's handed to guys. It's handed to us. It is a bullet put in our gut. We didn't even put it in ourselves. It's this sense of we're told that women go through this emotional period during their period, and we don't understand what periods are. And, you know, at the time or anything, we don't know. Nobody explains what of a shift is if nobody equates it to. Do you remember when you couldn't keep your hand out of your pants when you were 13 and you're like, you couldn't stand up, in school because your damn penis was hard at, you know, because, you know, you were in anatomy and you're talking about some that isn't even sex. Yeah. You saw an outline of boob. Yeah. Were you a different person then? Were you a less valid person then? What are your opinions? Last valid. See, now you're undermining. You're undermining. Yeah. I was just kidding. Is. I'm sorry, I know, but no you weren't. You don't feel like you weren't. You were like, that is what guys go through when they're going from like 12 to 14. Yeah. The way it changes the way you interact with your world is, I think, worse because it for you act worse. Okay. Like you, you women are not walking around with their hands down their pants as they walk down the street every month. Guys can't keep their like 12 year olds can't keep their hands out of their pants, like because of their their hormones are telling them that they need to touch themselves. There's that apple pie scene and and, in American Pie. Yeah. And the thing is, that is something that you don't even think of is weird. You're just it's a compulsion. No, guys, don't think of it at the time as weird. It's just a compulsion. And you're answering the compulsion. But women don't feel that compulsion. I don't think I got. I'm going to read the fine caps looking. I'm gonna take a deep breath and say, take a deep breath. Just remember, you were just complimenting me. I just five minutes ago. That's a different me, right? I agree, are you telling me that a woman would would would would fuck a pie? I am telling you that you would never have any idea, because girls are so much smarter about what is appropriate and given situations than boys ever are, that you have no idea what we're using as vibrators. And do you think it's that? But do you think it's that, or do you think it's that? Well, I know what you think, but could it be that it's that the compulsion in a boy is just so great that even though they know the decorum, they can't help themselves? I do think that it is a very strong drive when your brain becomes flooded with disaster. My own at. He's going to be so mad if you ever listen to his podcast. My my own son never went through all of this. Like discussing like, fucking sock shit that I hear so many, so many teenage moms like describing, like, the sticky socks and all. Oh, Lily locking the door, Lily, like. But listen, listen, listen. Let's sing. So I think that they're. Sorry. Did you just say there are no secrets anymore? Because I'm sensing that there are indeed secrets between your children, and, you know, and I don't I don't think that, like, my kid doesn't masturbate. Like, that's not what I think. I'm just thinking that, like, there are certain personal differences. Between what? Like how you handle, like, your behavior and how, you know, 20 of men who are like, didn't we're not the like, I can't keep my hand. I felt the compulsion strongly, but were able to control their behavior in public. So can I. Can I say what my point was, though? No, because then we'll finish your point and then I'll say what my point was. There was a point here. But you you finish your point. Even if you went through something very strong for a very short amount of time in your life, could have even trying to compare that to like the the what women go through on a monthly basis for the next 30 or 40 years, and saying that there's any kind of comparison between that brief period of like, strong sexual desire as a teenager and like the, the, the that we all go through in between, even if you don't have kids, never are pregnant. Like and leaving that aside, it's just like phenomenal to me that you can possibly think that this discrete period of time is where it's that or more. So that was not my point at all. That was not my point at all. My point before you take that little voodoo doll you have of me and start putting the pins in it, I literally I put, you know, I know you do. I know you do. You made it initially. You're like, this may come in handy. My, if we ever start talking about hormones, this is going to happen. My point was, this comparison was a way to get guys to understand that a hormonal shift doesn't change who you are as a person, and doesn't invalidate your decisions and your thoughts. Like I have heard some people say, like, you know and this didn't happen for me, unfortunately. But like, you know, how terrible their relationship was with their parents between ages 13 and like when they went to college and then after college, they're like, oh God, it was such an asshole. I'm sorry. I'm here. I'm back again. And I've heard parents say that about their kids. Like, it's so nice to be able to have a relationship with my kid again because you're a human being again. So I think that and to some extent that may happen. Yeah. You know, maybe and this is very possible, it could be that I made a bad point. This is possible. It happens every once in a while. There's so much growth in this podcast, you know. Well, it's funny, sometimes you go down because this is a I've never thought about this before. And as we're talking, I'm like trying to think about it and think it through. And I'm like, you know what? Is there a connection here? And, I start trying to defend that connection. And then I watch you as you respond to it and, realize that it's very hard for me to then explain it, what makes sense in my head. And then as I try to explain it more, I'm like you digging deeper. This might not actually be a good analogy, and all I can do at that point is say, you know what? This might not have been the best analogy. I apologize for taking us down. This weird, you know, analogy rabbit hole that didn't go anywhere. I thought about this the other day too, when I was, you know, think I mean, I think way too fucking much about parenting right now. But, I was thinking about it and I was like, shit, this is the first time I've ever doing this. This is the first time I had a 17 year old, 217 year old. And it's the first time you've ever had an 11 year old. Like, we're first time parents and like, we are fucking up so much, like, trying to do our best and learning and, like, hearing ourselves to have a thought and then be like, well, actually, I guess I don't believe that or maybe I shouldn't think that way. It's so, like, whatever. It's fine. I don't mind. You know, it's funny, we started with the parenting fail forgiveness thing. This is the real parenting fail forgiveness point. Like where we talked about it. Yeah. And, and I thought, this is really interesting because this kind of conversation often happens in which you don't end in this place where everyone gets offended, everyone. We both get offended for different reasons. Walk away mad and look what happens when you can take two extra seconds and, and maybe come to a point where you're like, well, you know what? Maybe we can learn from this, and I can learn not to make an analogy without going to the end of the analogy, I think it's an interesting point. Like that is a lovely thing that you said. And I think one of the reasons that we can do that, you and I can do that is because there's no stakes. Right? And so what it's hard to do, and it's what I'm trying to learn to do with my own kids. And like other relationships too, is like, take this kind of like and it's how it's going to sound kind of crazy and cool, but like emotional remove rather than being involved super emotionally, like, you and I can talk about this stuff all day long, like, and there's no stakes here. Like you're going to go do what you do. I'm going to go do what I do. We both learn stakes. There's some stakes, we learn opinion of me. Your opinion of me is a stake. It is a stake, and it's a meaningful stake. I care about your opinion of me. That is a stake that I mean, that matters. And I appreciate that. That's very sweet of you to say, but what I'm saying is, like, we are not in a relationship, you know, we're completely okay. We are not parent and child like, it's so easy to be like philosopher call and thoughtful and like unemotional and have these kind of disagreements and come to this like nice conclusion where you can say I'm wrong or I can say like, oh, you're right. Like I should never do that again. Like I never thought about that. Like it's it's so lovely in conversation like this and genuinely change how you think about things. And that's I think, the thing that I am aspiring to as a parent and like with my kids or like with my ex, because it's it's lovely and so thrilling and like calm when you and I can like, disagree while we're to, you know, a nice yeah inclusion. But I mean at the bit that I do find most helpful here is that like especially as your kids I mean any age but like I do think that having teenagers is just a lot. You're dealing just with a lot more of this uncertainty and a lot more of this doubting yourself because the arguments they make are a lot smarter. Yeah, they're a lot smarter about how they talk to you and yeah, so having these kinds of conversations, low stakes and yet high stakes, maybe for your own worldview, but low stakes for, you know, the actual conversation. Yeah. And it's helpful. It's helpful. It's super helpful. And I think there's so many things that we didn't touch on that are actually like practical problems of having teenagers that like maybe we'll do a part two and three and four and five, part two. We're doing part two. Yeah. Because we didn't talk about like, sex. We didn't talk about drugs, we didn't talk about driving. We didn't talk about like, there's so many like, practical problems or like difficulties that you run into as teenagers, like we talked about like, emotional, really strict sex at that, which is just like crashing the tip of that, just scratching the surface. Well, we will end it here. No, that there is a part two, probably a part three, 4 or 5 and six. I thought this was fascinating and I am both excited and terrified. If my as my son gets older and I will say more than anything, I just do, I want to go on the record with just say how impressed I am with how you've raised you know, you've raised these two kids to at least have that trust in you to be able to, you know, whether all of this and yet still have that underlying, you know, civility, you know, that underlying trust that is just it's it's a model I aspire to so. Well. And even in the fight that we were having, I had the thought, like many of these people are better than I am. Like, thank God. Like they're better people than I am. Thanks for watching. Don't forget to subscribe! Viva like or crazy comment. We'd love to hear from you and see you again soon.