Show Me The Meaning Of Being Lonely: Single parents and dealing with being alone

Lili and Scott admit how lonely it is to be a single parent and try to get to the bottom of why they don't ask for enough help. They also discuss whether it's ever ok to shit-talk the ex around the kids, and whether being Gen X or a Millennial affects how likely they are to reach out when they are freaking out.  

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Transcript

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We've had a lot of internet issues this morning, so we apologize if something weird happens with our sound. It gets kind of lonely when you're a single parent. And, I think the transition that was so that's. My transition. Really. Gets kind of. Lonely here. Like when you are single, given to me. Right. For you. You like. Yeah. Oh, you're emotionally tired. Do you have anyone you can share that with and I'll say, not really. I feel so alone. And now you say. Well then maybe. Wait, what am I supposed to say? Right? It's really lonely as a single parent. It gets really lonely as a single parent. Yes. And especially especially when you don't have someone else to write your lines for. That's true. That is very. True. That is. That's the best part about being married, is someone else can tell you what to say. You can. Yep. When you get into tape, you just like look at them and they can take over. Oh man, we're a little loopy today. I apologize in advance, but, today we decided we wanted to talk about loneliness. And, I don't think it's such a crazy time to talk about it, considering it seems to be. I'm reading more and more about it. Yeah. And it really struck home with me, and, so, so, yeah, this is something I thought I would bring. And the minute I said it to you, Lily, you're like, yep, yep. No problem talking about this one. I love being alone too. And so it's not that, like, I don't like being alone. I need to be coupled. It's just like a an existential. Well. It's that, comes with doing this work alone. We're going to start the show and then we'll get into it. I'm Lily, single mom, two teen twins, father. I'm recording in here. And I'm Scott, single dad to a pre-teen. Boy. Yeah, it's under the sink. We're two old friends trying to navigate single parenting. And spending the whole time thinking, I hope I don't fuck this up. All right, so before we start talking about loneliness, before we just get all chipper and excited and talking about loneliness in a fun way, we're going to talk about our parenting failures of the week. Before we get into these, I want to do, a little disclaimer from last week's fail of the week. Okay. What was so this is it. Somber. I'm so beyond it. I'm so forgiven and feel I've forgiven you so that you this. Well, last week I talked about how I was driving my son home from staying with my mom. Yeah. And, he smelled, and I wanted him to take a shower, but I also needed to take a shower. Yes. So I told him I was going to take a shower. First. He take a shower second. He didn't like it. You want to take a shower first? We're arguing back and forth. And then finally I got mad and I exploded and I said, you stink. And he got mad. So what's interesting is I tell that story, and I left something very important out. And, so stuck. But no, no. Well, I left something embarrassing, okay. Embarrassing to me. And then I was talking to my therapist later, and they are like, why did you leave that out? Because that's actually the part of the story that I think is most relatable. Oh, interesting. And I'm like, well, I think I left it out because it I was embarrassed by it and a little ashamed of it. Yes. Let's not sanitize this. Yeah, I was sanitizing it and I wanted everybody out there to like me. So here it is. I'm going to share the bit that I'm ashamed. Okay. The bit I was ashamed of was I told him he stinks. He didn't immediately start crying or anything. We got to the house and he ran in, and I went in and I started telling him to do things, and he was ignoring me. He didn't say anything. I'm like, could you check this? Can you get nothing? Yeah, I just lost it. And I got right up in his face. And I said, listen to me when you when I talk to you. And I didn't hit him or do anything physical to him, but I had that energy. I don't know if you know that violent energy. And so I went right at him and like, right up into his face. And then he ran upstairs and I went followed him and I, we talked through it and we were fine after that. Yeah. I was ashamed of the energy. I was ashamed that I had that. And so I didn't share that part that I like, went had, you know, I got right up in his face like, yeah, it was, it was way too much. And so I was ashamed of that. I didn't share it. And and so I'm sharing it now. And if you guys are going to judge me for it, you judge me for it. But let them judge you. But I will say this. It's very brave of you to correct a wrong, and the wrong was not revealing that part of it. And I'm proud of you for doing that. And I hope that what you learn from that is that you want to be better. That's it. You want to do better in the situation, and that's not to surprise you too much. But like. Every single parent. I know has done this and has felt immediate, like, either if it's not the media, it's like me, give it 30 minutes. Like shame. About what? The way that they just behaved. And I think it's it's super relatable. I've done the same thing myself. I did it way more when my kids were younger because it was everything was so irrational that it instigated my own irrationality at a time when I needed to be rational. And it was not. It's not easy, dude. It's nice. I just hate I hate that energy. I just hated. I hate when I get to that point where I just wear. Yeah, you know, power because. I know what I. Yeah, but I also. Yeah. And I and the thing is, the thing I'm most ashamed of is that I knew what I was doing. And then I brought the energy to him because I wanted him to do what I wanted him to do. Yeah. Intimidate. So it wasn't even uncontrolled per se. It was on purpose. It's not that it wasn't uncontrolled. It's if you had time to. Choose how you would. Yeah. Want to behave in that situation, you would. But like there's all of the other setting. You know, life was happening at the same in that moment. Yeah. Okay. I almost had a Lego in front of him and I almost crushed it with my foot. I just wanted to crush it, but I did. It because I wouldn't forgive you for ruining a window. No. I wouldn't forgive myself either, because I took my shoes off. When I got in the house, I would have gone right up my heel. What do you want to know, my parenting fellow? The week so that you feel better about being a parent yourself? Yes. Tell me please. So I, I think I talked last week too about like yelling at my. So, you know, whatever, whatever it is, it's normal. We're all normal. We're I'm not a gentle parent. I'm sorry. My son being a teenager is like, pushing all the boundaries. And he wants to be an adult. Like he's trying to live, like an adult without any of the responsibilities of being an adult, which is like a typical teenage behavior. Like, that's what happens. Yeah. He has been told he's not like to. Skip over. At his girlfriend's house, which he asked. And this weekend, they're at, at their dad's house. And I woke up. Side story last weekend, my daughter Stone got stolen. I keep tracking the stolen file. Because I'm so mad at it. So? So I like where the phone is now. Like, I don't do my find my phone. Make sure that. And this is maybe a little bit crazy too, but I make sure my kids are where at their dad's house, where I know they are safe and etc.. And your parent? There's nothing crazy about knowing your story. There used. To be a whole PSA. About how you know. So my son, I see his little phone on the sign my is at the address of his girlfriend's house in the morning, and my son is not a morning person. So I got super angry and I texted his dad and I was like, dude, did you let him stay at the girlfriend's house? And he's like, well, I had to leave early. I went to sleep early as like, so you don't know if the kid came or not. He's like, oh, we were talking yesterday. I knew where he was. And like. And I was like, I. Was like, this is a big problem. And he's like, while I'm at it, I'm doing things right now. Can we talk later? And I just, I like I texted them and I was like, did you sleep at my girlfriend's house? And I got a know response at first. And then I got it, of course. And I responded back. I'm going to need an answer. Well, he's busy, you know, shit himself in the bathroom. I was like, give me a second. I need to clean the colon out before I deal with you moms, because I just caught I just caught your voice for a second there, and you have a frightening. Voice in your mouth. That is a frightening voice. That that the are you where you say you're going to be caught. You in a live voice. Yeah. Our entire audience just stood up straighter, like when you were saying that. So his one word response, which I give him credit for choosing to respond, was yes. And so like immediately I call him he doesn't answer column. And then it's like, oh yeah. And he finally does answer and I come because I said, it's like, if you don't pick up the phone so we can talk about this right now, I'm getting in the car and I'm driving to her house and we can all have a conversation. Oh, wow. And so like, we're talking like he's yelling at me that I don't understand, that I just want him to be to not grow up. And I was like, no, no, no, no. It's just like one rule that you have. I cannot fucking wait for you to grow up. Dude, I am done. Hey, stop! He cannot make. You. I'll trade you rent and everything. It'll be wonderful. The. But you know, he was yelling. He's like, well, the reason that I don't do like I don't ask you. I don't know what the rules are at your house, in your dad's house, which is that. And I talk about things beforehand so that we make sure the rules are the same. And I was like, well, we and I relate that to him. And like he said, well he won't he understands like if things happen and like, you know, the train is a common thing. Dude, this is. Not about he understands like, you know, that you can get away with things at his house and you can't get away with things at my house. And you've got one parent. So, like, the real fail here is that I told him he only had one grown up parent. Essentially. And I. As like your dad, never wants to be. You'd be angry at him. He never has any consequences for your actions. There's a very good reason he doesn't get angry when you don't do this. And I was like, I really try hard and I want to put this disclaimer on my own. I can trash talk X. He's a wonderful, involved father and there are many very good things about him. Nobody else gets to trash talk him, so whatever. Like when I called and ask him, did you know where kids are? Like, that's a lie for me to trash talk. Even though it's wildly understandable that nobody in their right mind would ever think that that wasn't a big deal if you knew your kid came or not. So sidebar over. I feel really I don't feel totally bad. Totally. Because, like, they're old enough now to. Know I'm like, I think, where's the forgiveness part of the. I mean. A like, I think one of the things I try really hard to do is not trash talk their dead. But I also try really not to like, hide my real feelings and emotions from them. That those two things are authentic about, you know. Yeah. I'm not trying to make him seem like a bad person, but, like, dude, I know, I know why you don't get in trouble. There's. Because, like, he thinks it's fine. It's not a big deal. Somebody does think it's illegal. And it's only. It's it's so hard not to trash talk the other parent when the other parent is not holding up their end of the bargain. Yes and yes. But the I mean, the problem is always it's like the kids can sense that. And they play that like a flute and no, like a fiddle. You play like a fiddle, not like a flute. Yeah. You play like a cello. They play like a double bass. And, it's so hard not to slip up and occasionally lead out that because it's not just about you talking about, you know, it's not about how they're playing the situation. It's about the fact that why isn't your ex acting this way? Why is in your ex act the way they're supposed to act? And so it's the frustration is real. It just went to the wrong person. My did call his dad back after and was like, this is serious. He's like, I feel like you're overreacting about this. And it's like, oh. No, no, you are not overreacting. No. And I had to tell cello, like, listen, I need to be able to trust. When. The kids are there for the four days out of the month, that the 26 days of work that I do. Is in can ruin its day. And you're in the middle. I mean, you're in the middle of the city. Let's not underplay that. Like there is a big difference between, you know, the kids out in the suburbs or out wherever, like sent out overnight. Where are they going to be? Yeah, they're going to be standing around a keg in the middle of the woods. Yeah, that's where they'll be. Which is sure not the best. But it's not. It's not like the millions of things that can go wrong inside of a city overnight. Totally. So there is and you're combating the fact that they feel more self-actualized because they've been run around the city their whole lives. Yes. So they feel they understand it and they know it and they're not worried about it. Of course you. Remember what you did in your 20s. I remember and they're like. Do I remember getting laid? Chorus. Like I remember, yes. Feeling fear. Walking alone late at night when somebody's is behind me. Like when you're 17, when you're a 17 year old boy. You don't feel any of that like, no, you're invincible. And it's, it's a it is dangerous even for a 17 year old boy. Yeah, it is, it is. Especially as anyone my age is like does not look at all. Well, nothing to forgive for most of this. The only thing I, I do forgive because I've done it myself. Yeah. The accidental slip up of talking trash. About it was an accidental. Oh. Very purposeful. And I. I still accept your gift. Okay, fine. It wasn't accidental, but it is the hardest thing because my my ex does it with me. I use an amount and that's. I try not to do it with her, but I think I do. And yeah, it is something that they really step up and and so that's a bit I def I forgive you. We all do it well. So we got that off her chest. Time to talk about how it feels as a single parent. Because as the emotions that we go through, there's so many, but one that I keep coming back to and one that almost buried me. To be honest, especially in the early years of it was that feeling of loneliness. Yeah. It's like, you know, it's your your support system is not as strong as it should be. I think for most single parents, it's just your parents can only do so much. Your ex can only do so much. And then you and I, I think both had a decent amount of. I mean, I have almost full time, and I know you have a lot of time with your kids, and it doesn't leave you a lot of time. Yeah. To go out and meet people and feel like an adult and feel like there's a future beyond being a parent for you. And for me. Like there's the extra burden because mine are so close to, like, leaving the house. I don't actually want to bring somebody in to upset that last year or to like, I mean, there's just like a lot of emotional baggage that goes with introducing a new person into your family that I don't want to put on them. So that means, like I'm choosing them over my own relationships just for the time being, you know? Yeah. Well, I funny, I, we use the word loneliness. And yet for me, loneliness was the wrong word. I felt trapped and it was it was a sense of being trapped. Because you're trapped by this responsibility. Yeah. And, you know, you have a better relationship with your ex than I do. But a lot of times, once you start splitting duties, the sort of sense that someone has your back when it's your time goes away. And suddenly I couldn't date, I couldn't I couldn't even go anywhere. Yeah, like I had to be. I had to find somebody to for me to go to a doctor's appointment. You know, he had to follow me everywhere. Yeah. Like. And I think there are a lot of single parents like that where it's just like you. You don't have any out. Yeah, like you're a parent all the time. I think I agree that, like, loneliness isn't quite the right word, and it's more like a loneliness. Like you are in this alone. I'm sorry. I'm gonna get emotional like that is one of the things that like. As, like my, my son and I are yelling at each other on the phone yesterday, I was like, dude, it's really hard to do this alone, really hard. And I work really hard. And that's, I think, more than anything, like when you're married and doing with kids together, like if you need to tap out or call in a team member, or at least like you're in the house having the same, like you can contact each other's eyes and be like, dude, don't take that. No, no, no. Like not like that's not the way we're going to go. Like or you know, I really I remember times when he's like would put like his hand on my shoulder, we're like, why don't you go to the bedroom for a little bit and take a minute and it's like, yeah, great. You take over, finish cooking dinner when somebody just like threw their glass on the ground and like, yeah, knocked it over and you've got it now clean up and get dinner on the table and homework like it's nice having somebody who can be your partner in raising kids because it's too soon. It's too much. It's so hard. And I think for me the biggest shift was your, your you go from a wife that supports you to an ex that's looking for the thing you did wrong. It's not even that I'm alone and trying to deal with this situation. Like my son had panic attack. Yeah. You know, it's it's difficult. And he was he was having these panic attacks and realizing that I'm kind of alone in having to deal with this panic attack, because if I go out and I involve his mom immediately, the first question is, what did you do? You know, and that's rough, you know, and it's and it's not even I don't even fault her for that. If I'm I would probably think the same thing. You know, there's like a just a sense of helplessness when you're not there. But yeah, it definitely makes me feel even more alone and dealing with situation that I'm really I don't even really know how to handle it. Just it's not you're not set up for success, you know, in that scenario. Well and also like I mean let's call out like the fact here that you are a man raising a boy child and not there of. The boy or. Man are incredibly adept emotionally and like very. Like. It's just true. Like, you know, I mean, little boys obviously like, are full of emotion and can express their emotion in a way that men can't. And like somehow along the way, you lose that ability. Or it gets like trained out of you or whatever it is, but like, there's a significant amount of, like, emotional work that is done in parenting that I think for a lot of men. And correct me if I'm wrong here for a lot of men, feels really uncomfortable, like super uncomfortable to be able to, like, hold your kid when they're crying or just understand that, like they're not trying to do anything to, like, get you mad, but like, this is how they're expressing, like, whatever. Like all the mom touchy feely things that can come can't be easy to deal with. As a solo dad, I am. Also, I'm not from a particularly touchy feely family and like, we're just not touchy feely and so I find that hugging my kid is a lot more about wrestling than it is about just normal regular hugging. Yeah, and I try to hug him all the time, because I'm there all the time and it's almost like what he. What? He doesn't want that from me either. Like he wants the hugging. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's. Yeah. And but he doesn't have that because he's not with his mom a lot. Yeah. So like that's a big void in him too, I'm sure. I know we're going into so many it we're going to figure all this out today. We, So shit. You know, we're gonna go, oh, my hope is. Oh, wait. Well, here. We're going veer it back. Because this is funny. When you tap into something like this, it's run such through the core. Yeah. Of being a single parent that it it's so difficult to not have it touch upon every little thing that we deal with every single day here. None of like the things that we're dealing with are single serving topics like parenting is a web of, you know, interconnected, emotional live wires that you're bound to run. Into any given. Now it's it's so true. It's like. And so if we're talking about this today and try to also help people that out there feeling like this today. Yeah. I think it might be helpful for us to talk. About what? Is there anything we did that helped us turn a corner around these feelings? I'm going to be the, like, the Jekyll to your side and say that I, I think that the help is now not alone, that we are also healing that. But, like, for me, you know, and it might not be healthy. Like, my idea of what is helpful is not healthy because I, I, I have felt extremely alone this weekend in particular. And what I normally advocate is like reach out to a friend. Yeah, I did that for peace. And I got. Rebuffed. Not like and because like on text, I'm not going to be like, hey, this really shitty thing happened and I need you. That is my own fault for not being able to do that. But what I'm like, hey, let's go get a coffee. Hey. Can we you want to go try to meet up this weekend and, like, not put this here weight on them that, like I need you, maybe I should. Well, I, I would argue that we do this to ourselves and that we cut ourselves off because we somehow feel that our problems are burdens on our friends. Yes, 100%, 100%. And when you're in a relationship, you're able, you know, you have someone whose job it is. You know, the other is, yeah, the rules of the relationship to, you know, for you to be able to text them and for them to give you the time that you need. And when you don't have that, especially as a single parent, usually. What do you have? You have a parent, you know, one of your parents, hopefully. And I mean, that's why I think it was so much harder for me when I lost my dad earlier this year, because that was one of the people that I'd be able to call. And you don't get as many when you're a single parent, you know, you don't get as many phone or friends. Yeah. And, and the other thing is that we are I this isn't true of everyone, but at least it is for me. And it sounds like it is for you. It's like this idea of being an imposition on our, on our friends lives. Yeah. Runs counter to what a really strong friendship actually is. A really strong friendship is a constant imposition that is welcome. You know, it's it's a welcomed imposition. I never feel better than when I'm able to listen to a friend and give them some advice. Like, that's when I feel bad. That's sweet. And I find my friends don't reach out enough to me about that stuff, and I don't reach out enough to them. But when I do and we impose on each other, we feel better and we feel more connected. And so it's like, it's almost like less about, are they going to want to hear from me or this and that and more just about this sense that we don't know, impose on people and. It's like it feels super vulnerable, like, I mean, not that everybody thinks anybody else is a perfect parent or does everything right in their lives, but like, what you're admitting is like, I'm not good at this, right? Oh, you know, right now. Yeah. Like I'm at. Admitting, I mean, again, maybe it's just. That maybe we're the wrong. No, but admit it, I. I don't think. So. But being brave enough to admit, like I need something has always been a problem of mine. And like, I'm not even an old oldest daughter or anything. Like that's always been. Yeah, mine. All that birth order bullshit. The youngest who always felt responsible because of my divorced parents situation, I felt responsible for my mom from the time I was eight. And nothing's gotten better. But. I actually did. So I gave up on, reaching out, and I was like, fuck it. Just do what you want to do. Like, you feel shitty, so I, I went and got a haircut, which is something that I'd wanted to do, that I hadn't taken time for myself. I walked back home from Manhattan to Brooklyn because, I always feels. Exercise is great. And it was sunshiny out and it was a beautiful day. I got back to my neighborhood. I thought about going to see a movie. The timing was wrong. So like, I took myself to an early dinner, sat out in the sun, had two glasses of wine and some steak frites which like made me feel great. I love I don't, I don't mind at all eating alone in a restaurant like that. Oh. I don't either. And then I came home and I watched, like, a binge. The rest of, the Netflix series that I was watching and like my dad, I ended up calling my dad before I binged, and, you know, just checking in on him. He's 84, like, he's perfectly with it. He's perfectly healthy. There's nothing wrong with him. And I love him. He and I have very, very similar brains. He was. Not a great father waking up. But he turns out to be like an incredibly good friend as an adult and like, I'll just call him like Harry, you know, just we don't call. He only wants to FaceTime now, as I think that generation is like super into like they want to see you. And we get to look up their nose. I always look up, oh no. No. So I like I don't you real you can see yourself. You can see that I am counting every goddamn hair coming out of your nostril right now. It's like. It's like the eyes, right? Like my mom gets on the thing and it's just like. It's like she thinks that we're inside the computer. But he's like, you know, because he's known me my whole entire life. I hadn't said anything about anything. And he was like, what's wrong? I was like, nothing. He's like, yes, there is. Tell me. And like, that is what you want. Like somebody who is willing to listen and like, I feel very comfortable burdening. Him because he's my dad. Yeah. You know, cause he's your parent. Yeah, he's your dad. And he wasn't burdened at all. And the device he gave. Me was totally counter to the way he acted as a parent. It was, like, shocking. Just like my my dad did that to all the time. My dad was such a smart guy and like, he was emotionally intuitive as long as he wasn't involved, You know. And it was just like he always give me great advice. Yeah. And it's funny, now, my, my mom is giving me advice because she's probably the main person, you know, think about dating someone. I can talk to you now. That's helped, which helps. But there is. She has a very strong opinion of my ex, so I can't always. Yeah, bring. Her into that conversation because. Totally. You know, she sees how it affects me, and she turns into Mama Bear, and. I get it. Yeah, you get it. So. But my mom now gets very angry when I don't take her advice. Like, it's like she's like, I'm giving you pearls here I am changing your life right now. Why are you doing it? And I'm like, well, you know, maybe I will, maybe I won't. No, you will. And I'm like. Well, you know what I like? I always like, reward my dad when I like, when he gives me advice that aligns with what I was going to do. Yeah. Like I'll give it, you know, ask his opinion, which is not something I've ever done in my whole life. I've just always done what I thought was best, which is neither here nor there. But like now when I asked for his advice and it aligns with what I wanted to do, and then I do that, I reward him by saying like, oh yeah, I took your advice. So it's it's cool. You know, I do that too. That is a great trick for people. Yeah. If you if you are taking people's advice, friends or parents or whoever, let them know you took it, thanked them for it, even if you were going to do it anyway. Yeah. The worst thing. I have to catch myself on this all the time. Oh, I already thought of that. Or oh, I was going to do that anyway. Let them help. You. Yeah, because it'll strengthen it. They're going to answer you quickly later when you need help because they got a dopamine rush out of it. And it's your and it's your pride. It's your pride when you're telling people, oh, I thought of it already. Yeah, I was going to do it already. You're just you're just trying to win some pride game that just puts distance between you. Yeah, yeah. When I learned that and I think I was like probably four years ago when I finally learned that, it made a huge difference, especially with my with my dad. Like letting him know that I listen. Yes. He's like. On my job. Then he backs back into the dojo. But after that day of like the day of me that I took after crying all morning and wearing sunglasses to my hair appointment because I couldn't guarantee that it wasn't going to keep crying afterwards. And talking to him like at the end of the call. And he's like, you feel better? And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, I was like, no, I'm still sad. And he's like, now I can tell you feel. That you want him. Wrong, like so, it is true. Like talking to the people who, you know, might not be your partner, but, like, are available to you. You're only makes makes it feel better. Like I did feel less alone. It was nice hearing his experience of, like, you know, he ran into stuff like this with my brother and my cousins who lived with us. My dad is Iranian and they have conscription. And when our because my cousins, my male cousins, before they turned 18, they were sent to the States with us so they didn't have to go into the army. So tight knit. So like my male cousins lived with us too. So I. Just dealt with a lot of teenage boys. And not always in the to the best effect. But like, he's learned. From the. Mistakes he's made. And I feel like has started probably a lot about what do you wish you would have done differently. And like hearing that was actually useful. I just I love that you were able to end your day that way. I wish you could have done it earlier because, you know, like you know, so you didn't have to feel like that all day long. Yeah. You know, there's nothing there's nothing worse than, like, you know, sobbing when you're getting your haircut. You get a jagged line. I mean you really got to stay calm when they're doing especially this. Will do another episode on the absolute ass fuckery it is that women go through perimenopause at the same time that they're teenagers, because. That. Is a. Cruel joke. But that can be for them like. That, that all right. That well, we'll we'll get back to that. We have a whole perimenopause saying that. Oh no hormonal when like with any, any of that stuff is like. Oh I have. To like exacerbate your feelings of loneliness or feelings of like, not being able to deal like, but my, my like, okay, so that's what I did. I gave myself a day of me and I talked to my dad, finally trying to for some friends who were not so responsive and gave short texts to people who I was like, no, I can talk to you. What is your. I mean, like you also, you know, you didn't you didn't quite give your friends a chance to come to the rescue. I didn't, I did not. And it's that is totally my fault, that it's totally my fault. And like, I, I do the same thing, but I am a little. It was weird because you're like, couldn't you sense it like you're my friend? Couldn't you sense I was in need and drop everything? What's I find interesting? Because when I went through this, you know, I think everybody goes to this point in single parenting especially. I mean, it was harder early on, but I would say it's not even early on. It's just I'm dating now. When I wasn't thinking, it was harder. But you go through that sense of like, you just don't want anybody to know that you're messing up. But to your point, even emotionally, that you're not up to the task, and, and what I found having issue with was my closest friends are all married, and it's hard for me to reach out to people knowing that I'm their second choice. So it's like, you know, because because they're married. So when they're in trouble, they go to their spouse and that's who they are. And they don't come to me in that. There are times they do, but most of the time I'm not the first call. And yet they're my first call. And there's a power imbalance there that I have to sort of just come to, to come to grips with that. I'm. I like feeling that other people need me as much as I need them. And it's hard to feel that other people don't need me as much as I need that. That feels like an imbalance. And so that gets in the way sometimes of me reaching out when I need it because I'm like, well, they didn't reach out to me when they needed it. So me reaching out to them feels like imbalance. Maybe that is a thing that's only in your head that power. Yeah, that might be. That might be. But there's also they might also be. Maybe it's a guy thing. It means guy thing. But that also is like personality type. Like people come to me all the time, which I love. Like I love that people will come to me or tell me their problems or need something for me. And sometimes it's overwhelming, but I that is like the kind of person I guess I am. I am the one that people will tell all their shit to and ask for help or like, just like, don't emotionally dump on me. I think because I'm safe, I don't. I don't have the reason, but I don't those because the relationships are. That is the dynamic that has been set in that I don't do the same in reverse usually. I then feel like it's not I know it's not my place or if it like, it feels weird, I what happens is I eventually will get resentful that like, I'm giving. Giving. Yeah. Getting nothing back. But that's all on me because I'm not asking for anything back. Well, what's interesting is they're both all on us. Like, for me, I'm like, the reason why I think people don't reach out to me. And I think it is guys to have a harder time with this in general. And guys usually aren't the ones that like a, you know, a lot of my friends are female and, you know, I don't think guy energy is the thing they're going for initially when they're going through something like you're going through or like, you know that they want to talk. And I don't often want to call my guy friends because my guy friends give me shit advice. And they they really do. Like, I have one friend that like the entire time I'm talking with him and if I call him, he's like one of my oldest friends. But when I give him advice, his advice is always f fuck him. It's always his advice. To get to the end. He's he's he's from South Boston. And you get to the end. He's like, oh. Sounds like I was with him. You might have been you might have been, it's like you get to the end and it's like, it's like, oh, I'm so glad I spent 15 minutes telling you this that they're like, I'm. So I taught my female friends, and I don't think their first impulse is to reach out to me. And so that for me, I guess I get resentful. And I want to be someone that people reach out, you. Know, I what if it's like, totally generational, too, because we were not taught to share our problems or to share our emotions, or to ask for advice. And like this, like fierce independence. Gen X is I think we're getting, you know, bit in the ass by a lot, but some of it's great. Like, obviously like, I loved having my own autonomy, but like this part of it is something that and I feel like we've talked about this before, I'm trying to parent out of my own kids or like not recreate the same situation because I will tell you from my parenting fail where, like, you know, my son and I were like yelling at each other. He screamed at the end of the, the fight, you know, when I was like, well, I track where your phone is because I want to see if you're okay. And I was like, and if you're not, at least I know. Oops. Got a little upset. Wait. At least you're not okay. I don't know what to tell them, so it's to look for them. But. That's what you said to him? Yeah. Wow. Wow wow. I mean. It was, like. Clearly hyperbolic. And I was, So can I say not fully hyperbolic? I do not fully. Because you. Do know how to know where the bodies. Do use that. Wow. But what he said in return was like, what if I just go and throw my phone in that hallway and you'll never know where the body is? And then like that, like send something shitty and, like, hung up and I, like, immediately started bawling because we he never, like, never really yell at each other. But can I tell you, though, the good emotional thing that happened though, like to the conclusion of that was he I was gave myself time to cry and I didn't keep pursuing him until like keep the fight going. I gave him time and he called me back within five minutes and was said, I'm so sorry. I don't mean that I love you and I'm sorry that I screamed at you like that. And I thought, like, the world's. Gonna make me cry, you. Know? And it's like I thanked him for calling me back. I was, like, really appreciative of it. And, like, we kept talking, you know, I was blubbering, but, like, we kept talking through it. I called it, but I thought, okay, he just was sat up in the ass and just completely emotionally surpassed me by making that one phone call. And I think that's like part of this thing. Like we were we didn't we have never, never had the emotional wherewithal to acknowledge that. I just did something stupid, make an apology for it immediately and try to repair it on the spot. And I think that that is a lot of what goes into what we're talking about. And feeling lonely here is like, I'm unable to tell my own friends, I feel like shit, and I need you. And like, you're unable to tell your dude friends or your what whoever. Your friends are a similar thing. And I think it's because, like, we just were never taught to like, feel like we deserved to have that kind of support or that we couldn't do everything ourselves. It was a fierce, independent. Agenda. I think, on our yeah, our generation. Well, and I also think under that there's also this for me, I can't say for everybody, but for me you have a marriage fail. There's a sense of shame around that. There's the I don't share everything about how I feel about all of that. Because, you know, all my most of my friends are still married. I do think there's this sense of when you're when you're a single parent, you always have this feeling of judgment going on, coming from somewhere, like there's judgment from your ex. There's judgment that you put on yourself that you assume other people are feeling. There's, there's just. I just think there's always a sense of judgment. And reaching out to friends is a way of opening yourself up to more judgment. And sometimes that can be hard to do. Like, yeah, it's like I just don't want anymore. And, I think with Gen X especially, we we have a harder time because as we're getting older, the people that we do open up to, which tend to be like our parents, even if we're only do it now that they're older, you know, they're they're starting to fail us, whether it's because of their passing or because they're not mentally the way they were or, you know, there's there's just certain they're not as firm as it used to be. And so now we're looking around and we're like, well, who the hell do we have? And I would say that this is a this is, clarion call for us to work on strengthening those relationships we have because we do have. Yeah. And we may not recognize it and work on it, like, pick those people. Yeah. It's like your emergency contact with. Who do the crews? Your emergency contact. Never. Divorce is its own own. But I know, but but in this case, who is your emergency? Who is your emotional emergency contact list for when you feel alone? Yeah. Who are they? Well. And know who they are. Yeah, I think that that's super helpful. And, like, what do you do. Because you know you know, that's blue cards you fill out for your kids at school. And they always have that list the emergency contact for your kid. And then if we can't get. Ahold of them, what do. You want us to do? And I'm always like, what a fucking idiotic question. To get to that link. Whatever they need, they do it. But like. I feel like I reached out to my list. I didn't get the response I wanted because I wasn't transparent of what I needed. And then if that happens, if you've got your list together and you're not getting what you need and you don't want, like, what are you going to do that? And I think that's a super important thing to think about, or at least, you know, to be ready with like know what makes you feel good alone. Know what makes you feel good when you feel lonely. You look at your day. It's so funny, like you or like talking about how you felt yesterday. I am listening to somebody who knows how to administer self-care on herself. Like I hear someone who because we're going to have the emotional moment that's happening. That's the incident that's out of your control. How you handle it is, you know, is the difference between whether this is going to affect the next three weeks or just the next couple of hours. Yeah. And you had your self-care regiment, which I think you got it. You got a haircut, you feel comfortable bawling openly in front of your hairdresser, which. Is a beautiful thing. He's also got a lot of kids. So yeah. She gets it. You know, I do the movie thing myself like that, which you almost did the movie thing is big for me. My other thing is, I am a musician, so I will sit in the back and I'll just play guitar for half an hour, and that helps me feel better. And then, you know, you eat alone. And for some people, that may not work for them, that may make them feel worse. But you got to know it. And I think it's so impressive that you had the incident and then you knew what to do. You're like, I'm going to do A, B and C, and by the end of it you feel better. Also, I. Crushed, crushed, which I think is. It was, you know, not helpful. Like I still I keep getting choked up today even thinking about it. Even though like we were prepared and like I'm just like I hang on to emotion. I really, really long time. So like today it was just like, you know, still feeling it. And I think giving yourself the grace to like, let that come out and to feel that is also kind of important too. You know, this is a thing that we're the generation of parents with like little kids now, like like that. Tell them like it's okay to cry. It's okay to feel your feelings like, nope. Don't. That's that. And like, I know I. Often feel like embarrassed to cry. Like I feel it's especially in front of anybody else. But like giving yourself the luxury of feeling those emotions fully, I think is super beneficial. So yeah. And it's okay. I mean, and I say that to guys who have it even harder touched with it. I mean, we're we have a heart. I'm I'm barely in touch. I'm air quotes for people who aren't watching this. Think about it like forget about your air quotes. The fact that you as a man are even thinking these things. And your leaps. And bounds beyond a lot of. But the thing is, you feel it, you feel it, and you know, all the guys out there are feeling it. Yeah. And they're feeling it even, you know, on the they're feeling lonely because they don't have their kids for a larger amount of time. And they want to are like, yeah, there's all these ways in which, you know, I think guys, especially single dads especially come at it. They have a harder time in other ways because often you have less control and often you have less contact, and you're even have fewer tools to help you handle it because you get a lot of from your message. And like that's an interesting point, because my friend and I talk about how she's also single mom, how men never think that anger is an emotion. And like that. Is that, oh, you all feel probably most quickly or most easily that, but it's equally an emotional response that you're. Having. I mean, this is a topic that will come up again and again. So, you know, I don't think we need to solve every problem right now. But what I would say is I feel best having this conversation with you, like, we talk about this and I feel better and yeah, you know, that that's proof is in the pudding right here. This conversation two of us are having. Yeah. Definitely making me feel better. Yeah. And I only almost cried twice. So I think I'm getting mad. I got teary eyed, too. You can't see because it's so pixelated. And what we're looking at each other. But you know, those little, like, translucent pixels in the corner of my heart. Those are my eyes tearing up. No. It's true. I feel better, too. I always feel better when I talk to you about, like, the the the truth of what? I mean, like. It's I hate I hate being cheesy about it, but the idea that it takes a village is really true. And I think the work we need to do is figuring out who's in that village. And that's the work we don't always do. And so if you're sitting by yourself. So I'm trying to get better at sitting by myself feeling like this, make my list, put my list together. Who can I talk to? Make it a longer list so you don't just have two people and then you're one and done. That's, I mean. Not to derail your very nice wrap up that you're doing here, too, but I. Know. Who kind of really strong go tos, and they always think, I can't believe I only have two friends. And then, like I think about, I try to think about all the people that are like, not a top. I'm not going to tier them, just like not the top tier friends, but like people I'm friends with, people I really enjoy. But they're just not part of my regular rotation. Like thinking of those people that I'm sure they'd love to be reached out to, and asked if they want to go sit in the park with you or whatever. That hopefully can be a long list I have. Yeah, you know, I have. I'm trying to lengthen that list and widen. Sometimes a newer friend is better than an older friend. Totally. You know, and you know, they are learning about your life and you can tell that story you've told a million times and it'll be new to them. It well, you know it. Well yeah, I, I totally agree. Like the, you know, all of this loneliness stuff is it's going to be true for us as single parents but also like really true for people like me who are about to have kids that go off to college and like, if you're not lonely now, you, you might very well be the end. So like, what is what. What's your plan like having a plan? I just even thinking about it and having having a way to make yourself feel less alone or less, that's about being alone. Like, most of the time I don't feel bad about being alone. Most the time I love it. But when I do feel bad, like you need to kind of know how to make yourself feel better. And I mean, I love it. I love being alone, and I love it more knowing that I have something on the other side to rely on, then you can enjoy being. Totally, totally different. Yeah.