Does Dating As A Single Parent Have To Suck This Hard?

In this first episode of Hope I Don't Fuck This Up, a single parent podcast, Lili and Scott talk dating as single parents, the worst selfies in the world, the different experiences between single dads and single moms, and why a few texts can save you from getting murdered. 

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Transcript

0:00

All right, here's the scenario. Oh, you're already laughing at my opener because I'm trying to be all professional about it. And you just think that to. Just be regular. I can't help it. So here's the scenario. You know, you've been in a relationship for years. Like we both were. And then suddenly you're back on the market again. You have to date again. Only now you are a single parent. What do you do? So, stick around and you'll find out. I'm Lily, single mom to teen twins. Father, I'm recording in here. And I'm Scott, single dad to a pre-teen boy. It's under the sink. We're two old friends trying to navigate single parenting. And spending the whole time thinking, I hope I don't fuck this up. All right. Welcome to hope. I don't have this up. My name is Scott. I am the proud single parent of a ten year old boy. And I'm Lily. I am a single mom to 17 year old twins. And we are going to talk about dating today. Excited? No, no, that's not at all. I'm excited to talk to you. But not about. Dating. Not about dating. Oh, my God, the pain. It's like the the thing that we do that we know will hurt. And we do it anyway. Yeah. Like, Well, first off, before we go down that dark, dark path, there's something we like to do on the podcast where we talk about a parenting fail of the week and we ask for forgiveness. Lily, why don't you go first? This week was the first week of school here, in New York. And two days before the first week of school, I started a new full time job myself. And I had to rethink big plans over last weekend to, prep for this week because I knew I'd be overwhelmed. New job, new school start. Was going to have a meal plan. I was going to do clean, and I was going to do this pile of laundry that was behind my back. And this is just my like, teenagers take care of themselves a lot. So the work level was low. It was just really just think of things ahead of time so you don't have to get screwed all week long. And would you like to guess whether I did better? I think I know the answer. I think I know the answer. How much what what percentage, what percentage of it did you do? I definitely got the shower the night before the new job started, and that's about it. Like, I was like, I shot of one meal. I went into it on Monday, I. It was a holiday, so. Well, I was it. Nobody was working. I thought it was like the meal for the next night. And it got it at the grocery. Store that. Day. Next. It's, Sometimes it's all you can do is just one day, like, I can't. I'm. I'm not a I'm not that parent. I am going to forgive you so fast on that. I have done that so many times. And like the the meal plan especially is so hard because, you know, I have my son full time. So like and I do not cook. I'm the worst cook in the world. I'm dating someone now who can just whip something up, right? She's like, oh, I'll whip something up. And out comes this meal. I whip something up and out comes a hate crime. Like it's just I can. I can whip things up. But there was. Nothing in the. Frigerator and it's like kind of thinking of it. That is the problem. So I, I, it's been 17 years that I've been failing at this, so I don't know why I thought that I could fix it this past weekend. I know it's to my to my benefit. Kids don't really care. It's fine. Like, they'll eat whatever. But I really just. I shoot myself in the foot. And I don't, well, I, I forgive you, that because by saying that I'm forgiving myself, and I, I mean, I under that is, it is so hard. I mean, especially new job. I can't even am I mean, that is such pressure and it is it's I mean, thankfully your kids are a little older, but, like, starting a new job, a new job as a single parent is such a unique pressure. Yeah. Well, they understand like it's it's tough. It's it's. Super tough. The woman who hired me, also a single mom, and she was like, I want you because I know your situation, which was an unbelievably wonderful thing to have happen. She's single mom of three, and so even. Oh my God, yes. But she, they have been very understanding. I asked to have the rest of August. I wasn't going to start until September because I wanted to be with my kids, but, I did not think about it being just after Labor Day and the start of the first week of school. So whenever I'm living. Like. Hey, do it all at once, move and get divorced at the same time, do everything at the same time. Yeah. Well, mine, is, also involves kind of a first. I, started coaching my son's baseball team, and I've never coached anything before. I'm. I only did it because they said that they weren't. They didn't have enough coaches, and they were going to cancel the season if they couldn't get more coaches. So I was like, fine, I'll do it. So I'm like, third string coach. There's like three coaches and I'm coach number three. I have no experience, don't know what I'm doing. I mean, it's baseball, I know baseball, but I literally have no idea what I'm doing. I'm showing up. Yeah. And while we're coaching, I'm, like, trying to encourage all the other kids. Yeah, but I'm treating my son like he's my son. So everybody else gets encouragement and he's getting you can do better. Like we're fast. Like I'm like giving him. It's like all the little and not I mean, look in a nice way, but like all the little criticisms that you do when you're trying to get somebody to be better because I know when he's lazy or he's not running fast enough and things like that, I'm all those are at him. Every other kid on the team is just getting you're the best. And at the end he comes back and he's like, dad, can you can you please not be me? And I was like. Oh no, he called me. He didn't say me. He didn't say mean. I mean, I don't know exactly what he said. And I did recognize this. I was doing it like I and I'm like, I promise you, never again. We had the game yesterday and it was completely different and it went great. So good. But but it's so hard because you just do it without. Thinking, you know, you that's. I didn't. Nag him. I just said, you know, come on, you can go faster. Look the ball into the glove. Everyone else, great job. Wow. You know, get it. He is like so I mean, I felt I felt good, I felt pretty bad. I know I felt pretty bad, but I feel like in this podcast you, you know, you come across as, you know, you're overwhelmed. I come across as I'm a bad person trying to be better. Listen, you're not a bad person. We're all just people who happen to be in charge of other people at the moment, and we all fuck up, you know? Yeah, yeah. There's a reason that this podcast is named What It Is because we know that. But I forgive you for being a human being, Scott and the parent at the same time. I totally forgive you, especially in, in in knowing that we've got to give our kids something to talk about in their therapy. That I have no problem. Yes. He fills the hour. Let's say he feels the hour. He's got, he's got a good, good 50 minutes of material every every month. Well, I guess we're transitioning from that because we're really here to talk about dating. Yes. That horrible, horrible thing that we thought was probably, I don't know, I, when I was, you know, kind of at the tail end of the marriage where things were going so great, you start to fantasize a little bit about what dating would be like and like how wonderful it will be to, like, meet people that you don't have all of this friction and problems with many things. Of that, I just want. To say really. Really. You don't think about that? Yeah. Well, what do you. So I said I was there. I mean, I'm not. I never would cheat. It was nothing like that. It was just. Yeah, you know, it was like alternate reality thought like, yeah, if I were in a different world, why? What were you thinking? Not. I was thinking about not having to deal with being married anymore. That was like the big relief for me was it would I mean, of course, like, I mean, not even during my marriage. Like, you meet somebody cute, but like that, like that. That doesn't feel like dating to me. The thing that I was most dreading was. That one of the. Reasons it's like, maybe should we get divorced? Or should you just, like, suffer and. Think, think. Think, think about whether you actually want to. It's like that whole getting to know you thing. You know, I, I had, 25 years with my ex and, like, you know, that inside and out are these, you know, as as best as anybody could. And I don't want to can't with. Anybody, no matter how cute or whatever, that I don't want to learn about anybody's problems. I don't want to learn about their family. I don't want to teach them about mine. So it for me, it feels more like homework. Oh, wow. That's. Yeah, that's the saddest thing I've ever heard. Well, try being a. I know what I mean. I think there is a sense that a lot of the women that I talk to about this, there is a sense that there is some giant gender divide in this, especially as you get older, that this sense of like, guys are silver foxes. And so it's, you know, they don't worry about looks. And guys are, you know, they they kind of it's kind of like opening the menu now and they can have anybody they want. No, no I'm and it actually is not like that at all. Well and I will say the the what is want in. And this is purely unscientific based on research and assumptions. No research shows rather. But men at 48, 49, 50 get divorced and they're like, great is my next 2530 year old because they maybe they want to start a new family. Maybe they just would like, want the, the a differential so that they feel important and, and grown up or whatever. No judgments, judgments, but not really not about me. I'm like, don't lie on this part. We like women who want to date. Men are looking at that same age group and they're like, actually, even though we're exactly the same age, or maybe a couple of years younger, like, we are too old. Here's, here's what I sort of ran into. I call it the Rip Van Winkle effect, where I got married when I was in my late 20s. Yeah. And I was a certain person that at that time I dated a certain age, I felt a certain way. And that is kind of like caught in amber for me. Last time I dated. Then I'm. I'm married. This not. And I get, you know, I get divorced and I'm in my mid 40s at this point. But in my head I'm still in my late 20s. I'm still caught in that in amber and late 20s. And when I go out and I look at people to date like I, that is where my eye goes because I'm like, that's the last time I dated. This is what everyone looks like. And like. I know, just. Say that maybe it's not just Courtney Amber, but maybe it's like, any man who dates once a day to 25 year old. Again. But that it did not last long. I would say it did not for me last long. It lasted like maybe a couple months where I was like, you know, looking for. And then I just started to think about one. I really have nothing in common with somebody in their, yes, 20s. I mean, it is a vast difference in experience and life outlook. They are at the start of a ride that I am closer. I'm in the middle of, you know. Yeah, parenting. I'm not looking to start another family. Yeah. But also, like, I felt creepy, like, I just. You know, you're looking. At that. We set up an algorithm. So I had two friends and I that we all got divorced around the same time. Yeah, we set out an algorithm, and you just put the age in your age and their age, like. Well, and it pumps out, like, what age range is really appropriate for you. And then I only dated people in that age range. Or what I am sorry, I'm laughing at the fact that you just can't come to that conclusion logically. Without it. I did. It. I did an algorithm. I needed to know where the flaw was so that I didn't like, you know, break social mores and like, not even break social mores to save myself from myself. Yeah. And I'm sure there are a lot of old soul 32 year olds, but it felt weird. I mean, I was I was about 43, I think 42, 43 when I first started. And when did you set your age range at. 35. Yeah, that felt like the right age. I didn't want because someone who's 32, 33, they're looking to start a family and I just I have my family. I didn't need that. Women are on a clock. Like, if they want to have a family, don't waste. They're done. Well. And that really was in the back of my head. And it's something that I think not enough guys think about. But like when you date somebody in their late 20s, early 30s, that clock is like right in the middle of of tickin. Yeah. And you're wasting their time. Yeah. And that's not fair. Like, especially if you don't feel like that's something you want. If it's something you want, then you're not. I mean, there are guys in their early 40s that want to start families and that's a different conversation. Bless their hearts. There's some let's talk about not knowing for a second. So I mean, what I really hate about dating now is like there's not like I got I got I met my ex-husband when I was 19 and we started dating at 19. So if you want to talk about really being out of touch with what dating is like, that's when we started dating. We got married by the time I was 24. And so like, my entire youth was just married, like, I was just with somebody that whole time. But the the thing, the thing that's so weird in particular is like, yes, sure. So I didn't go. My brother introduced my ex and I, but people went out and like, went to clubs or like whatever, like you met people in person. So like from my mid-nineties experience, it was like people you went to school with and people you went out and, you know, met while you're out and coming back into the dating world with apps. I felt like, well, I like I, you know, I'm in the media business, like, I know how to choose a picture. I know how to write some copy. Like that part. I didn't feel like I was going to screw up because I know what people like to click on. And I don't feel, you know, I have friends who are photographers who have taken great pictures of me. So like, I, you know, I've used great pictures, but I felt like I didn't. I had missed decade, a decade at least, of like people learning how to do this. And I felt like I was starting to play a game that nobody had told me the rules about, and I was fucking up Lechlade like it was. It was like just even trying to, like, knowing who to swipe on or like reading through the lines about what people were saying that they wanted or didn't want or like at minute 45 and up, saying that they didn't know yet about a family. And like, that's got to be conveying. Something that I'm missing out because what are you talking about? You don't know if you want kids yet. Well, to give them the benefit of the doubt, that could be because they already have, like kids and they don't know if they want more kids. I mean, yeah. Figure it out, dude, you're 550. Are you kidding? By the way, that was completely intimidating to me. That one choice. When you like first start dating and you are. What are you looking for? Yeah, like, I had no idea. I had no idea what I was looking for, like and to. But if you say you have no idea what you're looking for, nobody wants to date you. I couldn't be possibly more clear to most. I will not say most women. I'd say a majority of women. They know whether they're one any more. Kids are not from this, from point two, from today on. What? Because it's a very different experience. Like for most women when it comes to you have to carry the child. You have to be. I mean, there's so much involved. Yeah, for. Women and for guys, we don't have any. For us it's like, oh, well, you know, certain child support. Like it's like. God, it. Really should be harder for you. I really I mean, look, I feel like I'm carrying the burden for a. Men. That right now, you know, it is true though, it is the sense of like when you watch, you know, women dropping into natural gender roles when it comes to raising, it just happens. No matter how enlightened the guy is. It's like if you don't have a conversation about it 90% of the time, it's just going to happen. Yeah. And that's in the back of your head. And so like, I spent two months where I said I was just, you know, looking to have fun. And I got like very little. And so I had to say that I'm open. I said open to a long term relationship because, I mean, I was married, I am open to a long term relationship. Yeah. With the right person. And, and then people started clicking on me at that point. Where are you? So let me ask you a question about the those particular like what? You like us. I put I forgot I mean I didn't it starts out something I didn't even think about. But like when my divorce itself took a long time, it like happened over the pandemic. So like there was courts were attempting. To. We weren't in a hurry because, like, we were perfectly happy with each other. He lived with his new girlfriend like it was not like we were getting back together or there was confusion. It just took a long time. So we were separated, technically separated for, three years before the divorce went through and several of the vectors that I use that were came just before separated. I had my wedding ring on and I, like I. I didn't even. Think about it, like it was super simple. Like I didn't have like a big diamond or anything. I just had a band and several people called me out there like, is that a wedding ring on your finger? Who is that? That was mistake number one. But, like, then be. I had to think, like, do I put separated and be truthful and, and, like, automatically filter out all the people who are like this bitch. Forget her. She's not divorced. I'm not messing with it. She's still got a husband. Or do I put divorce and live, which is really a better representation of the situation? I, I'm going to guess you put separated. No, I did put divorced for sure, because, like, I really. Yeah, for sure. Like I did not. I didn't want to have to explain it like it was. I felt better about it once we actually were divorced and having it in there. And I put something out like bio that like, I have a, you know, peaceful or whatever relationship with, with my ex that we're co-parenting or something, something along those lines so that it wasn't like weird for somebody that I, we still text and see each other and stuff, but I yeah, I left it, I left it as interesting. Yeah. Wow. Because, you know, that was something I was very clear about. Separated because one, I think and this might also be a gender thing, but like, I hate saying things are gender things in 2024, but it just kind of feel like it where it's if I'm caught out in a lie on that, I think that is a deal breaker and it's too it's like also like even morally it for, for for a guy, you know, that is it's a big misrepresentation. Why tell me tell me why. Because like, it's not like the the situation was that like I'm going to be getting back together like what is the big deal for you. Well two things. One is that you just don't know if things are going to change. I mean, you're especially you're dating someone with kids. You just don't know if if it's separated. There are plenty of people that I know that got separated, went play the field a little bit, realized how horrible it was, and then went got back together. Like that has happened multiple times. Oh, I'm not. So you did it. You did it. See you. You you said you were divorced and you lied. So that was. At that time I did. That was early. Okay. So when I was just like online, I don't even think they had the wherewithal to act. But but I'm. Saying it happens. It happens. And then the other is I really and this was true about me, like my emotional state when it came to dating was so different. You know, when I was just separated, like. Oh, really? Dating is about at that point for me when I first, you know, first separated, it was about reminding myself that there are possibilities out there because I had been in such a bad situation. So it's like, you know, it was a hope exercise and hope and, but it was not an exercise and find my next wife, you know, it was an exercise and feel good about yourself. It was an exercise. Yeah. Can I do this? How does it feel? And all those things. And so even, like I did, end up briefly dating somebody maybe like a year and a half in for maybe four months. It was right when the pandemic hit. Yeah. And, and she was ready to go faster. And I realized that I just wasn't at all like it had nothing to do with her. It just had to do with the fact that that's not what I was looking for at all. And it was a game of it was a game of musical chairs, and the music hadn't stopped yet. And to me, like the legality has no part in any of those decisions that like, I think that you rightly made for me, it's like, I agree that sometimes when you start dating, it's about like, what are the options out there? And then I quickly realize, like, I feel. Like I'm so bad, mean, And what's that? What's what's a what's separate? I was like, oh, there might be something interesting. Oh, there might be other opportunities. Oh, there might be possibilities in other with other futures, with other people. And then the amount of time and effort it takes to actually like, play the game like I'm, I realized like I don't want I don't want to commit to that. Like I'm not paying attention to the app. Like I don't have notifications on like, oh. I never did that either. Yeah, I never did that either. I know people that did that and I don't. I'm like, what are you? What is the note? You're it's it's like ding, somebody likes you. Like it's it's a weird thing, especially because you learn very quickly that they don't, they don't really like. It's not like the, the big. Yeah. The, the extremely low bar that they've had to set you barely clear like that's, that's what it's about. I was actually kind of glad though in the past like so my ex moved out just at the end of 2019. So pandemic started in early 2020. Might have might happen right in 2019 too. It was crazy. It was like. Yeah, I was terrified. You know, obviously like the entire world was for a lot of 2020 and 2021. So like, I'm not really interested in getting on that ice and introducing myself to like, a potential death mate. And that's like. That's kind of my. Bubble. But but the fact that I had to be alone with with my kids, like, you know, they were they're home with me 24 seven at that time because there was no going to school. It was I was kind of glad for it. Like, I I'm really glad that I didn't jump back into dating full force because I didn't. It gave me, it forced me to take the opportunity to just like, think about myself. I mean, that is like, you know, if we were to throw a couple of tips out there for the poor schmo just like us, my tip number one would be that, like, if you're come, especially the longer relationship you are in, the more time you need to reintroduce yourself to yourself. Like. And that's I don't care if that guy or girl, if it's 30 or if you're 50, like, who are you now? And if you're a parent, especially, who are you as a parent? My my, my ex. And you know, both times we broke up, he immediately moved in with his new girlfriend that he had been with, while we were together. And I do think, like what? Forget like the the morality of all that. But the thing that I've ended up feeling for him is like, I feel really bad for you. Like you're. Never got. To be alone. Like you never. Know. Do what you want to do in your apartment by yourself or think about just you. And I often wish, like, I really wish he could have had that just so like a he could learn some of his flaws. Maybe it's own. When it's not somebody else calling him out on it. But, yeah, not your problem anymore. Not anymore. But, like, you know, we're friends. And so, like, I would say that now, like, be alone. Don't be scared. It's good for so many reasons. It's also good because your children are going through a traumatic experience just as the time that you are. Yeah. You need to focus on reminding them how important they are. Yeah, a new partner will make them feel less connected. Yeah. And so you do need to I think, set up. What does it mean to be a parent. Yeah. In this new scenario. And then worry about what does it mean to go out and you know find a new new partner because it's it's not going to be easy. I mean, then introducing that new person when you find them into your life, it's not going to be easy. And you you got to have some. You got to have a groundwork, you know, to sit on which, you know, I think I kind of knew intuitively, but that's because I'm also a selfish person that likes my own time and I don't. I like being by myself. To that point, though, like I am so an interested in dating right now because I so enjoying my time alone since I've got the kids like, I mean and again, they're teenagers. So like the, the the demand that at least you're still parenting but it's teenagers that parenting is different. But I've got them every day. They're here every day except for two weekends a month. And those two weekends a month are my only time alone. And I'm not. I mean, maybe I could at their age now, like, go out on a date on a weekday, but I feel too much guilt about that. So. Really? Yeah. Yeah yeah yeah, yeah. Well, we'll we'll talk about that in another episode. I think. That the guilt of dating for sure is like. Its own animal. Totally the but the preciousness of being alone has made me really hesitant to like, invest the time in dating apps. I wish there was. I wish there was matchmakers that I could afford that would just do it for me and be like giving up that that precious Saturday in your pajamas. Like. You know, like, I. Love I love doing it. And I know, I love. I love that our advice, our dating advice is don't do it. You know, it's funny is like, I don't know if you get served these same means that I do on social media. But like everything I see is women who are divorced now, I'm like, I love this so much. I love being alone. You better like, you know, to allow somebody into my home, into my life, you know, like, I don't want you here. I don't want your sex here. I like I've had the thought, like, if I ever meet somebody that I want to be with again. Like, I like my furniture. Like I want it cause, like, you know, houses again. I'm running. It's funny. I'm dating someone right now, and it's been, you know, it's been over a year. It's going really well. And we're like, we're never moving in together. Like, I like my stuff. You like your stuff? Like, maybe when we retire, but, like, you know, we each have our kids. We each have our lives. And it's like, you know, she'll stay over and she will be like, I hate that, but it's not my problem. Well, I mean, it's funny, like like when you're talking about being alone, I hate that it keeps coming back to these sort of gender roles. And it they are they just seem to ring true time and time again. And one of them is the caretaker role that a wife will often take on in this relationship. The sense of like, and I you know, I, I was I needed to be taken care of as much as anyone else. But also you just. Alter that language just a little bit and not say, sure, a wife will often take on a caretaker role. It's that shit needs to get done, and the woman is the only one who will do it. And that wow, look. Here's here's my here's my bone to pick on that, my bone to pick on that. And once again, this is another episode. Sure. But oftentimes it's not. I will talk about my relationship. I want anybody else's relationship because everybody else is different. But in my relationship, it wasn't that because I did the laundry, I did the dishes like I did a lot of the chores. The question, you know, the question wasn't, you know, somebody's got to do it, so I'll do it. It was somebody's got to do it right. And right is the way I have established that it's right. And so if you do it your way, that might not be the right way, in which case I'll just do it. And so there are certain things that I got socialized into not doing, because when I did them, they were wrong. I didn't do them right. Well, I mean, that for sure is a thing. Like, I'd say that that's a subset of what we're talking about here. Okay? And it's more like the mental load stuff that you've seen. You know. I'm going to cut us off. I'm going to cut us off. This is such a great episode and it's not this episode. So okay, I get it. But there's so much to talk about there. When you filter. So for your dates, like when you're thinking like, I'm, I will check in to the apps now. Well, because like, I'll get like a couple of glasses of wine in me and start swiping when I'm alone. Because I feel lonely for that one moment and never go back again. Not the two. Months. However, when you are doing that, like what are some what are some of the red flags you're looking for? Or what are some of the filters that you're like mentally applying when you're looking at? Some of these are things I learned over time. And like, maybe this will help listeners hop past a hurdle that we kind of had right away. But one of them is do you one of the big questions is, do I date someone who has has kids or not? And early on I date, I'm like, I don't care, I'll date whoever that is gone. Now it has to be someone with kids, because it really needs to be somebody who understands. You know what the priorities are for me and to have those and not even understands it because I just a single person can really understand that, but has them exactly under, you know, so that when I say I can't go out tonight for a, you know, PTA meeting or because I'm like, just need to or, you know, what I have to do, which is, you know, I have one day, you know, on my weekends where it's just me and my son and we go and we do something together so that you can have that connection moment. You know, the woman I'm dating right now understands that because she has kids and she, you know, has those same moments. Someone who is not dating can often feel like, well, where am I in that? Why can't I come? Why can't I be a part of this? Because they want to insert themselves into the family that way. And I just think that's tough. And and for me, I think that's tough. I'd rather find somebody. Who I love so much more of a thoughtful reason. Why. You know. I also want I like single dads will go like to the front of the line. I wish they were more upfront about like, their single dad. And there's are more of them. Some of them are on the apps as like, I want the same thing. Like I want somebody who gets it A but B, like, I don't want somebody who wants all my time and like, it's. Yours because you don't have it. You don't. Have, you got your. Own life, you got your own kid. Like, if we get to see each other once or twice a month for dinner, enough. That's enough for me right now. Especially to start out, like, build. Yeah. You know, build and and and and you'll get there like I think that so that that's a big one was a big one for me too was my age algorithm I think I yeah, I actually think my age algorithm was a good idea and I've aged it up. So now, I mean, I couldn't imagine dating anyone under 40 at this point. Just because I do think it's a different stage of life and, it's just, I mean, and no shade on anyone because I do know plenty of old souls. And, like, you know, I've seen those relationships work fine. Yeah. For both. I mean, I have a one, you know, divorced female friend who's who's dating someone in their mid 30s, and they're doing pretty well. My own mother married a 25 year old when she was 40. And they're still. Married. Divorced? My step dad's a great dad. So no shade on any of that. This is a personal thing. It's just there. Are there they're just a there are, there are. Sorry. A giant groundhog just walked by outside. And. Stared at me as it was doing it. Like cut the balls on that thing. Anyway, yeah. I don't know why people think I've ADHD. The same. I would. Say. That that is. Yeah, the age. The age because, I mean, I feel like I mentally do probably match best with like a 20 year old when it comes to my attention span. But no, it's it's no shade on anybody who can make that work. And this would not be a tried and true, you know, hard and fast rule. But it is it's it's it's tough to match up, especially when you're both parents. Let's say it looks like. What do you look like. Is there. Oh, God. You're pulling me. Yeah. I'm trying to sound all like it, you know? Yeah. Hot. Red hot. I'm sorry. It's the problem. The problem for me is like having been in an editorial role for the most of my life and being a an esthetic, we moved person. Like, I can tell you, if that picture is a good looking picture at the. Scene. In like less than half a second, but I cannot tell you if I'm actually attracted to them. And that is the that's the problem that I keep running into is like, oh, here is something the person that like, fits my esthetic parameters and like their text, their copy is like, okay, enough in one way or another, but I have no idea if I'm actually attracted to them. And that's where I keep like failing. Like I'll get on a first date and then like I can't. It reinforces the fact that, like, all these apps feel like a waste of time. They're not a waste of time. I think there are rules that you need to follow, and there are certain rules that I do firmly believe in. And I have broken every one of these rules, but they are still very important. One is you got to get to that date as quick as you can, because there's nothing worse than spending two weeks texting back and forth being I mean, we're both writers, so like, you know, I'm, you know, being witty and fun and I'm modifying it and we're good at it and, you know, and and I dated or like, you know, set up dates for people that were also just like text after text. And it becomes this distraction that you do and you've wasted two weeks. Then when you sit down to have a date and realize that there's no chemical reaction and it is a chemical reaction, I think we have to remember that there's chemistry here. Yeah. And the most I have sat down with the most attractive person in the world and felt nothing because there was no chemical reaction. And I sat down with people where I was like, I thought, I, you know, I'm like, I think I'll give it a shot. Even though I wasn't like crazy about the photo and was sat down and was immediately engaged. So, I mean, there's a fair amount going on. Sure. And I, you know, I personally don't think I'm a photogenic person at all. So like. I'm definitely not. And so you're missing out like an in I will say. You are by the way. I'm not a photogenic. And that's okay because like I, I, I feel like they're like on the street, you know, I get like, I know that people think that I'm attractive, but I don't think it's quite the same in photographs for me. So I'm like missing out on a lot of, like what? That natural, like the people who are attracted to. Not that everybody's attracted to me, but like the people who are, I don't think are even getting like an accurate view of me because and so I'm surely doing that to somebody else. Yeah, I know what's funny. The for the first time, the woman I'm currently dating, like we talked, I broke every rule with her, by the way, I have to be up for. Of course she did. We texted way too much. It took like, a week and a half. We were. We got together, and I think there were like, a thousand texts before we got to that point. Oh, at every. Just remember, take it all with a grain of salt. Yeah. But yeah, you know, my photos by the time I had met her on, you know, on the app, we're a little older, because the pandemic had hit and they were all, like, maybe 3 or 4 years old. And so she's like, well, can you take a picture of yourself and send it to me? So I took a picture of myself and she told me later that she saw it and she cried. She. She saw the picture. She's like, oh, no. Like she was so devastated by what I look like in that picture. Nobody should ask anybody in their 40s or older for a selfie. First of all. Like, no, no, no, I does. Not turn out well. And and like, I wasn't smiling because I don't love how I look when I feel like my face widens when I smile. And I'm still trying to pretend like my face is when I was 29. And it just is. Yeah. So I wouldn't smile for the picture. And so she, she wrote back, she said, are you sure you're not a serial killer? Like, that's I guess the look I had. So this is, this is what happened. But I sent this photo. And. And then but we had so in this case and by the way, you can see how every rule I'm putting out there, I'm immediately then gainsaying it. She still gave me a shot. And I think it's mostly because of how horrible some of the other people she had dated had been. And she was just like, you know, he's nice. I want to try nice for a change. And when we went out, we were immediately attracted to it. We talked for like four hours and it was just like I saw the relief in her eyes when I saw her in person was both hilarious and mortifying at the same time. But she she was like, so relieved that I wasn't a mole person. What? She saw me, but, Yeah. I mean, I seen pictures of you. You look like. You like. I mean, I don't know, you must have taken the world's worst selfie. It was with this background, by the way. And. And she's not a fan of this wallpaper. And so I think she felt like it looks like a murder den. Like, that's what the last thing that somebody sees before they die is. I don't think it's these birds. It'd be like if this was like a murder mystery movie. They'd be like, all right, find them. They're in a room with birds. You know? It'd be like, these are the birds. So she didn't love that. And, And I was just like. Like, just straight laced. Because when it was, I actually didn't think I look that bad. But I kind of get. That jawline flex. I it was all jaw. It was just going for all jaw and chin because I got the little John Travolta clef. Get the nose. Yep yep yep. Get the lighting. Good. I mean, to be fair, she's a professional photographer, so I really was. There was no way I was going to win for that one exception. I had ten wasted weeks of just texting and then having it not work. There has been a lot of men who have been like, we each swipe on each other. There's like 1 or 2 messages back and forth and they're like, let's go get a drink. And for me, I hear that and I think they're going to murder me, so I do. I'm not that. Interesting. Getting to know somebody over text is, and, you know, a lie detector test or anything like that, but you get a sense of them more. I think when you communicate for a little while. So, you know. It's responding. Really quickly. And is that too quick or is that weird or, you know, do they, do they say inappropriate things or they like you know, there's all kinds of like, indicators, I think, that happen in that text communication that lets you relax your spidey senses a little bit and like, okay, I'll go meet you in a public place. So where do you want to meet me? Too fast. And I get what you're saying. You don't want to waste time. And every man on all of our nearly every man on these apps says, like, I don't want to text, buddy. Let's just go out. Every single one. And every single woman that I know wants to get to know you just a tiny bit before they agree to, like, meet a stranger from the internet, internet or phone, whatever. In person. Because the fear they're all of the time is like, am I about to set up a date with somebody who's going to kill me? I mean, it is that underlying thing cannot be stressed enough. And like, that's and that's something that like, as a guy, it's just we just do not understand and we just don't have that feeling. And you know, that cannot be stressed enough and isn't stressed enough. And as my my compromise and I did come to this compromise was if, you know, there's somebody I really want to meet, they really would like to get to know me. First I suggest the phone call because I think a nice 20 minute phone call just to say hi, just to get a sense of do they have a friendly, warm sounding voice? Yeah. We have can we do a little bit of repartee? Yeah. You know, whatever it is I and I so I've done, I've done that a decent amount and I actually I love talking on the phone, because I'm a Gen Xer and we like human connection, but, but that to me was a, it was a nice middle ground. And maybe it's a zoom call, maybe it's, whatever. But like. We just talked about how we don't look good in selfies. Have you seen that front facing camera? It looks like. I don't want to face. That angle, but I feel like once I come alive, I look better than when you catch for me. Like, for a. It's like that frame grab section. Put me in to life. I'm better like but I but I completely understand the need to get to know the to feel like they're not murderers. Yeah, but I just don't like. What I don't like about the texting is that it's. It's so hard. Like, I find texting actually really time consuming, and I start to get irritated because it's at the wrong time, and I feel like I'm doing a stand up routine for like, two weeks because I don't know anything about you. Like, I don't know enough about how to talk to you. Yeah, yeah. And I think what I do, which is how I'm playing the game wrong, is I go into it completely as me, which I feel like ultimately is the best. That's not right. That's the best. Do it. Like I'm not doing that. Like, oh, like the coy shit that I see girls do or women do that I like. That's, I, I couldn't, I wouldn't like that, not that like there isn't like plenty of sexy time texting in a relationship. Whatever. But I'm not going to be coy. Like that with this stranger. So I'm just me. And a lot of people I think, read that as like too much. I don't know what they're doing, but I have had this situation where I've had that back and forth, really great textual chemistry and, and the person I, I was like, it's twice this has happened where I've made the decision to meet based on like these really great text conversations after a week or two, like you're saying. And it was. Just like nothing. Nothing there. And I completely resent now all the time I spent doing all of that. Oh, I was. Like, I'm. So see, you had a good time. I don't I don't like texting. So yeah, like I don't, I don't mind it because I do do it like as I like it. That doesn't feel like pressure to me because I don't have notifications or like anything on. So when I'm going in there and like it does give me that kind of excitement and to elation that you were talking about, like it's the attention ship because it's like, oh, this is fun. This is interesting. It's like something to do instead of just like scrolling Instagram or whatever when I'm sitting on the couch. So that part does seem fun. And then when we read in person and it doesn't have any of that chemistry, it's disappointing. But like, I'm like, I don't want to talk to them. I get like, but it's that way. But I would say that like, you're you're coming at it from a healthy perspective of, this is a fun kind of thing. There are people that really start to fall in love over text. Yeah. And, you know, they start to really build up in their heads based off of this text, especially someone who's had a lot of bad dates and someone who's had a lot of poor, you know, and and they're just looking for hope and are looking for something. Yeah. Like not just looking for a distraction. That's where I think you can really go down the wrong path with this and be like, sure, really start to fall for somebody who doesn't exist. And and that can really start to hurt after like 4 or 5 times. So yeah, if you're I would my advice would be if you are doing Lilly's method, which is it's a fun side like way to to flirt. It's a flirt thing, Have fun. Go at it. You're not hurting anybody. Do not think that this is any indicator on how you're actually be. I have plenty of people that are amazing texters and can't put a frickin sentence together. You're walking a line, especially when you're a parent. Because remember, when you get devastated, it affects more than just you. Like when you go, when you know when things are difficult and it hurts. That you're not able to follow your emotions. Down. Exactly. What's wrong? You just. You know, it's just I hate saying it because it's pressure, but it's still you know, you're you're not. It's like when you're pregnant, you're eating for two, you're dating for two. 100%. When my mom was a single mom, like she did it more and like, we met more of the dates than I think is. Appropriate for parent child relationship. But like, I remember distinctly meeting some people and being like, I hate that guy. Bad vibe. Like we didn't we didn't say bad vibes back in the 80s, but like, that is what I felt. I was like, this guy is no good. And when I met my stepdad, I really, you know, really loved him right from the jump. Like he was a great guy. And like, you know, because he was. The same age as you, he was you could could be buddies. You know? In fact, like I will say this, my older sister and he are the same age difference as he and my lover. So it. Wow. He was a he's a good guy. But that is definitely, something that I consider every single time. And my daughter is a harsh, harsh critic. Like she is going to judge that shit alley. Well, we're getting close to the end here. One other thought I had, my kind of final thought. Yeah. Is, to come back to my Rip Van Winkle analogy, I went out and started dating again, and I started using the same moves that I used when I was in my 20s. You know, I'm a musician. And when I'm in, when you're in your 20s and you tell a girl you're a musician, she's like, oh, you're a musician. And when you're in your 40s, she's like, oh, you're a musician. Okay? Because, you know, if you are, if you're at a date with a musician and you have not heard of them, you are paying for dinner like that. That's a truism, I, son. And that is what I fear for a. But I mean, like all these like women in their 20s and I'm sure guys in their 20s, there's a similar thing, but especially for women in the 20s, they're attracted to potential. And, you know, you have the potential to be something, when you're in your 40s, you've already realized a lot of that potential. And if you haven't realized it, it's a red flag. So when you're kind of putting yourself out there, I do think it's important to look at kind of what are the ways in which you are actualized, not what are the ways in which you are potential. Like, I'm a musician, but I don't lead with I'm a musician, I'm a musician. It's a fun thing to find out about me. It's not the thing that I lead with, like, because being in your mid-forties and a musician and not having, like, anybody have heard of you is not a great look. And that's just it's not what you do for a living. Yeah. It's not what you do for a living. It's not. How are you going to support yourself? You know. No. You know, there's just these these financial things about life in your 40s where people are like, always thinking about it's a touchy subject to talk about because it's something that I think we're all uncomfortable talking about, you know, being, you know, what is what are you looking for financially when. You're that's one of my filters is like, do you have a job? And what is it like? Not that I judge you. For what your job is. I just want to know that you can support yourself. Well, and I think I look at it as two ways. I want somebody who has a job and can support themselves because I'm not also interested in being a sugar daddy. And but two, it's I like I'm attracted to people with passions. That was going to be my step. My question about what you were saying, though, because like the thing that I spend a lot of my time on is like my side project is, you know, that Jenny Mediacom like little plug here for, for my women's, lifestyle website. Please, everyone follow it. Read it every day. It will change your life. It is. Really good. I really, really like it. I spend a ton of money on it and we've made like $500 something. To make it. Well. Welcome to modern media. I mean, yes, but like the thing that I like about me the most right now is like, yeah, I have a day job. Yes, I can support a family. Yes, I'm supporting myself. And like, I'm a committed person who gets up and goes to work every day. The thing that I like the most about myself, however, in this divorce late 40s era, is like I'm doing the things that I never had the effort or energy to do. And because because I was in a marriage, because I had young kids, like I started a business, I'm starting a podcast. Like I just had an idea the other day for like a convention for makers over 40, like internet makers over 40. I was like, I should do, I love maybe it's a great idea. It's like. Yeah, I love that. Well, I mean, look, and whenever I say these things, they come across as cold and callous. And then everyone's like, well, you're like. And it's not meant that way. It's just meant to say that, like, I do think that there are when you're first impression, the very first thing that people find out about you. I do think stability is an important thing to get across when you're over 40. Stability is important. Nobody wants to date. You're already unstable. You're divorced, you're separated. You're a single parent. You're already unstable. And so adding additional instability, like, I'm a full time musician or like, you know, I make T-shirts, you know, for college students and, you know, and by the way, do you have a spare room like that. That I can live in? You know, that's people don't they're not interested in, like. And when you're in your 20s, instability isn't so bad because you're still growing together. But yeah, when you're older, like, you know, so that that's I'm not I 100% agree that like passion to me. Like if you don't care about something. Yeah. You know, I'm really want to put I'm not interested in being part of your journey. Like your journey. I want a passionate journey. I'm passionate about things you're passionate likes. So I agree about that. I just think so. I it's about stability. I feel like putting across that you're stable. Yeah. Is something that will make people feel more comfortable in being with you, because there's so much in your life that isn't stable. Yeah. Bartenders and chefs get an automatic, like, left swipe from me because. You've got a job I don't want. It's hard now. With no part of bartender chefs I'm okay with, even though I just don't want to be around the outbursts that will happen constantly. Plus, chefs will hate me because I don't eat anything. So, like, chefs will not like to date me. I literally I hate anyone that tells me no eat it the way I made it. I'm like, no, no, no, take the damn mayo off. I don't want the mayo. It's like, yeah, but it tastes better with the man. Take the damn mayo off. I am the. Customer. You know how glad I will say one. The thing that I'm glad about, we'll talk about in another episode is like, I can have mayonnaise in my house again. You guys are my excuse. Oh my God. So bad. Oh, so many horrible things that we put on our food. Why do we do this? Why do we not so much? Yeah, we ruin it. We ruin it. We're like, we. Hate food. So much. We hate ourselves so much. Dish the French fries on. Come on. You don't want to do. It's not. Oh my God, no. Even thinking about it makes me want to stick my head like that's horrible. Oh, no. Mayo. You know, I've grown to be okay with mustard over time. Catch up. I mean, anything with sugar in it, I'm okay. But mayo, anything egg based, I just cannot. Anyway. That is. I hope you're upfront about this on your dating profiles. I yeah I am no I am like do not feed me. We're wrapping it up. My hope is that people listening have one got in some sense that all these things are grappling with. We're all grappling with. It's not easy for anybody, whether you're man or woman, whether you're looking for men or women. It's just not easy. And it is scary. And, and hopefully some of the tips that we have put out there are helpful to you. I mean, they've been helpful to me over time. I know Lily's just living her best life, rocking out her weekends. I'm trying now. My weekends are very boring, which is what? Anyway. Thanks for watching. Don't forget to subscribe. Leave a like or a crazy comment. We'd love to hear from you and see you again soon.